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| *** patersonc <patersonc!uid614485@id-614485.hampstead.irccloud.com> has joined #cip | 11:17 | |
| *** jki <jki!~jki@62.156.206.32> has joined #cip | 11:51 | |
| jki | hi all | 11:59 |
|---|---|---|
| pave1 | hi! | 11:59 |
| uli_ | hello | 11:59 |
| *** masami <masami!~masami@FL1-111-168-44-134.tky.mesh.ad.jp> has joined #cip | 12:00 | |
| patersonc | Hey | 12:00 |
| jki | let's go | 12:01 |
| jki | #startmeeting CIP IRC weekly meeting | 12:01 |
| collab-meetbot | Meeting started Thu Sep 3 12:01:01 2026 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jki. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:01 |
| collab-meetbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:01 |
| collab-meetbot | The meeting name has been set to 'cip_irc_weekly_meeting' | 12:01 |
| masami | hi | 12:01 |
| *** collab-meetbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 12:01 | |
| jki | #topic AI review | 12:01 |
| *** collab-meetbot changes topic to "AI review (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 12:01 | |
| jki | <void> | 12:01 |
| jki | 5 | 12:01 |
| jki | 4 | 12:01 |
| jki | 3 | 12:01 |
| jki | 2 | 12:01 |
| jki | 1 | 12:01 |
| jki | #topic Kernel maintenance updates | 12:01 |
| *** collab-meetbot changes topic to "Kernel maintenance updates (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 12:01 | |
| uli_ | i've been working on 4.19 | 12:01 |
| masami | This week reported 136 new CVEs and 69 updated CVEs. | 12:01 |
| pave1 | I was reviewing 6.12.106 and .108. | 12:01 |
| jki | "I reviewed v6.12.97." (iwamatsu-san) | 12:01 |
| jki | there were some single-fix stable release(s?) again - anything we need to worry about? | 12:02 |
| pave1 | .107. I took a look, nothing for us. | 12:03 |
| uli_ | in 5.10 one, then one that reverts the one, and then another one :) | 12:03 |
| jki | release oscillations | 12:03 |
| jki | so, no special actions needed, I hear | 12:04 |
| pave1 | virtio_net_hdr. I actually may take another look, as I initially parsed as virtualization | 12:04 |
| pave1 | only, and it may be broader. | 12:05 |
| jki | remote? | 12:05 |
| pave1 | But we probably do not use related functionality... so should be ok. | 12:05 |
| jki | and virt is in scope for us | 12:05 |
| jki | we surely use virtio-net e.g. | 12:05 |
| pave1 | Not remote, afaict. Someone having access to tun/tap. | 12:05 |
| jki | ok | 12:06 |
| pave1 | Yeah, you probably should not allow KGB agents to use virtio-net :-). | 12:06 |
| pave1 | So in scope, but I would not panic for this one. | 12:06 |
| jki | anything else? | 12:07 |
| jki | 5 | 12:07 |
| jki | 4 | 12:07 |
| jki | 3 | 12:07 |
| jki | 2 | 12:07 |
| jki | 1 | 12:07 |
| jki | #topic Kernel release status | 12:07 |
| *** collab-meetbot changes topic to "Kernel release status (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 12:07 | |
| jki | all on track | 12:08 |
| pave1 | My notes say do 4.19-rt as soon as 4.19 is released. | 12:08 |
| jki | but a few are upcoming | 12:08 |
| jki | yeah, maybe you noticed that I added the version tag to the status report | 12:08 |
| jki | can help identifying when rt and vanilla got out of sync due to delayed rt release | 12:09 |
| jki | and that is I think what happened with last 4.19-rt | 12:09 |
| pave1 | Basically we'll want to change 4.4 and 4.19 from "every two months" to "every other -cip release". | 12:10 |
| pave1 | ...which should be same in ideal world, but... | 12:10 |
| jki | there can always be special situation, we should just make sure to realign then | 12:11 |
| pave1 | (y) | 12:11 |
| jki | anything to add? | 12:12 |
| jki | 5 | 12:12 |
| jki | 4 | 12:12 |
| jki | 3 | 12:12 |
| jki | 2 | 12:13 |
| jki | 1 | 12:13 |
| jki | #topic Kernel testing | 12:13 |
| *** collab-meetbot changes topic to "Kernel testing (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 12:13 | |
| patersonc | Thanks for the QEMU lava-docker MR jki | 12:13 |
| patersonc | I assume this installs the version you need now? | 12:13 |
| arisut | kci-dev is improving the mcp extension and we are currently writing a document about this | 12:14 |
| jki | it installs it, yes - but that is still as much as I checked | 12:14 |
| patersonc | Okay | 12:14 |
| arisut | we are improving reports | 12:14 |
| patersonc | Thanks arisut | 12:14 |
| pave1 | We should probably start testing 7.2-stable | 12:14 |
| arisut | I also just got aware of patersonc PR on pipeline, will review it | 12:14 |
| patersonc | In the LAVA world - the TI lab is still offline, sorry. Affected by holidays I believe | 12:14 |
| jki | arisut: are there pipelines / workflows for the MCP already? | 12:15 |
| arisut | yes, but we have an unofficial mcp server that will be make public next week | 12:15 |
| pave1 | ok. | 12:16 |
| arisut | also the documentation on pipelines/workflows | 12:16 |
| arisut | will be released next week | 12:16 |
| jki | will be interesting to watch in use (or try out ourselves...?) | 12:17 |
| arisut | yes, would be interesting to have cip using it | 12:18 |
| jki | I guess there is quite some potential for LLM-based triaging of LAVA results | 12:18 |
| arisut | yes | 12:18 |
| jki | filtering out patterns, generating context-specific statistic etc | 12:18 |
| jki | cool! | 12:19 |
| arisut | yes, that would be cool | 12:19 |
| jki | more on testing? | 12:20 |
| arisut | I will ping you when is ready | 12:20 |
| jki | TIA! | 12:20 |
| patersonc | I think LAVA is also working on an MCP as well | 12:20 |
| jki | 5 | 12:22 |
| jki | 3 | 12:22 |
| jki | 4 | 12:22 |
| jki | 2 | 12:22 |
| jki | 1 | 12:22 |
| jki | #topic AOB | 12:22 |
| *** collab-meetbot changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: CIP IRC weekly meeting)" | 12:22 | |
| jki | iwamatsu not here, he wanted to have a look at the review tooling | 12:23 |
| pave1 | I got question about next -cip kernel. | 12:23 |
| jki | yes... | 12:23 |
| pave1 | Slowly we should put 7.4-cip on our radar. | 12:23 |
| pave1 | And we should probably talk about -rc branches. | 12:24 |
| jki | what would be concrete steps? | 12:24 |
| pave1 | jki: Dunno. I guess "we are selecting next -cip" on TSC meeting. | 12:24 |
| pave1 | And really start looking for what would be suitable longterm stable in a month or so? | 12:25 |
| jki | that discussion will surely start, but we do not know the next version yet, formally | 12:25 |
| pave1 | No, we don't. It is time for discussion, not for the results :-) | 12:26 |
| jki | 7.4 is not unlikely, but there is only a 7.3-rc1 now | 12:26 |
| pave1 | Yep, simple maths also points to 7.4. | 12:26 |
| pave1 | I believe we are sure we will not do 6.18-cip at this moment? | 12:26 |
| jki | that is clear | 12:26 |
| pave1 | Ok. | 12:27 |
| pave1 | So likely "whatever next kernel is marked as longterm stable by Greg". | 12:27 |
| jki | same procedure as every two years, yes | 12:27 |
| pave1 | (y) | 12:27 |
| jki | TSC will ask us what it will mean effort-wise | 12:27 |
| jki | are we expecting changes, because of the new kernel or anything else? | 12:28 |
| jki | that will likely be a topic in Prague | 12:28 |
| pave1 | LLMs are causing problems. Flood of patches from unusual contributors. | 12:28 |
| jki | the CIP project may grow next year, and that can be a chance to address topics that need more attention | 12:29 |
| pave1 | Of course, it is not LLMs mistake, but.. | 12:29 |
| jki | or scale up existing work | 12:29 |
| patersonc | pave1: Upstream? Or on cip-dev? | 12:29 |
| uli_ | upstream | 12:29 |
| pave1 | Upstream. Likely uli has better numbers than me. | 12:29 |
| uli_ | 1300+ in the last month in 5.10, i didn't check how many are ai | 12:30 |
| uli_ | that's 5x or so compared to last month | 12:30 |
| uli_ | *previous month | 12:30 |
| patersonc | Sure - mainline/stable is a bit nuts with LLM atm. I was just wondering if CIP had seen any direct patches | 12:30 |
| jki | the risk of fragile "fixes" hitting stable is surely rising | 12:30 |
| pave1 | ...so -- that. I see it in 6.12/6.1 reviews, too. | 12:31 |
| jki | that's why we need to think about measures that may help CIP to stand this | 12:31 |
| jki | "though AI at it" is not the only answer, but we will likely not be able to ignore that as well | 12:31 |
| jki | that's why we are looking into this already | 12:32 |
| pave1 | So stable maintainers are misusing LLms already, not sure "more LLMs" is the answer. | 12:32 |
| pave1 | Other side effect is that fixes now hit 6.12 first, and 6.1/5.10 with some delay, causing duplicate reviews. | 12:33 |
| jki | did anyone study already what RH is doing in https://hummingbird-project.io/? not kernel, but... | 12:33 |
| jki | as I wrote, LLM will not be the only answer | 12:34 |
| jki | I do expect more effort on the reviewing side, even with LLM support | 12:34 |
| jki | so, if we think we need more hands on deck for that, I would request support | 12:34 |
| jki | people or budget | 12:34 |
| pave1 | I guess question is "is this new normal" or "is this temporary spike"? | 12:35 |
| uli_ | my observation is that the number of patches has been rising the whole year. the current number is an extreme, but no idea how it will continue... | 12:35 |
| pave1 | But I'd say more support may well be needed. | 12:36 |
| uli_ | +1 | 12:36 |
| jki | given that there are more new - apparently AI-backed - first-time contributors, I expect not only a spike | 12:36 |
| jki | than this is already a topic of us for the ETSC in Prague | 12:36 |
| jki | it's likely resonating because there is such a strong interest in CIP because of the kernel | 12:37 |
| pave1 | jki: one could hope that they run out of simple things to fix eventually, but it is hard to predict when that happens. | 12:37 |
| jki | I don't think (or read?) that we are only talking about first-time fix contributors | 12:37 |
| pave1 | jki: no, problem is total ammount of patches going in | 12:38 |
| jki | besides more hands on the review and potentially backporting front, I would also stress again that we need eyes and hands on testing | 12:39 |
| pave1 | yes. And I'd like to see work on reducing configurations, so we concentrate effort on stuff people actually use. | 12:39 |
| jki | pavel: that will be tough, but please propose concrete areas | 12:40 |
| jki | I rather expect the configs to grow further | 12:40 |
| jki | with every new cip kernel and more advanced use cases on top | 12:40 |
| jki | that said, there are surely still unneeded switches in our configs | 12:41 |
| jki | but how to identify them? | 12:41 |
| pave1 | jki: we could require each company to write explanation for each switch. | 12:42 |
| pave1 | jki: they would likely make them realize they don't need the switch after all :-) | 12:42 |
| jki | pavel: key problem is that each company is already complex in the chain where the configs come from | 12:43 |
| pave1 | jki: we could start with switches that look suspicious. | 12:43 |
| jki | and then there end-customer scenarios as well | 12:43 |
| jki | yes, if someone like you could question concrete switches with significant impact, that is a starting point | 12:44 |
| pave1 | jki: yeah, eventually it will lead to efforts on companies as well (and maybe even end users). | 12:44 |
| pave1 | jki: I can try starting with something (when things got a bit quieter). | 12:45 |
| pave1 | jki: Eventually someone "owning" the configs and having power to ask questions etc could be good. | 12:45 |
| jki | we can try, but the easiest way of getting rid of things is when no one forward-ports a config to a newer kernel | 12:46 |
| jki | while, at the same time, we also lose bits that are valid because users believe this forward porting is automatic... | 12:47 |
| pave1 | jki: we may consider starting with minimal kernel for 7.4-cip, so people will need to explicitely ask for config additions. | 12:47 |
| jki | that is too late | 12:47 |
| jki | we then already started to ignore bits that are actually relevant | 12:47 |
| jki | well, too late is relative, but we can't wait for a year or so, like it happened with some 6.12 bits | 12:48 |
| jki | key is to get users more actively involve on configs, just not yet clear how to achieve that better | 12:49 |
| jki | okay... more topics? | 12:50 |
| pave1 | jki: Question is how to achieve that without major disruption. | 12:50 |
| jki | pavel: continuously talking about it in public :) | 12:51 |
| jki | no better idea right now... | 12:52 |
| jki | maybe we could live-visualize the subsystems in scope? | 12:52 |
| jki | better than only waiting for users to come back with "why did you ignore this CVE?" | 12:53 |
| pave1 | Publicity is good. | 12:53 |
| pave1 | We could do some kind of stunt like "one CONFIG option a week", speak up if you need that option. | 12:55 |
| jki | no one is folling CIP at such a pace | 12:55 |
| jki | they are all busy updating their products :D | 12:55 |
| jki | so, any other topcis for today? | 12:56 |
| jki | 5 | 12:57 |
| jki | 4 | 12:57 |
| jki | 3 | 12:57 |
| jki | 2 | 12:57 |
| jki | 1 | 12:57 |
| jki | #endmeeting | 12:57 |
| collab-meetbot | Meeting ended Thu Sep 3 12:57:37 2026 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:57 |
| collab-meetbot | Minutes: http://ircbot.wl.linuxfoundation.org/meetings/cip/2026/09/cip.2026-09-03-12.01.html | 12:57 |
| collab-meetbot | Minutes (text): http://ircbot.wl.linuxfoundation.org/meetings/cip/2026/09/cip.2026-09-03-12.01.txt | 12:57 |
| collab-meetbot | Log: http://ircbot.wl.linuxfoundation.org/meetings/cip/2026/09/cip.2026-09-03-12.01.log.html | 12:57 |
| *** collab-meetbot changes topic to "Civil Infrastructure Platform Project. CIP mailing list at https://lists.cip-project.org/g/cip-dev | CIP kernel meeting every Thursday at 13:00 UTC | Find the meeting logs at https://ircbot.wl.linuxfoundation.org/meetings/cip/ and chat logs at https://ircbot.wl.linuxfoundation.org/logs/%23cip/" | 12:57 | |
| jki | thanks! | 12:57 |
| pave1 | Thank you! | 12:57 |
| uli_ | thanks | 12:57 |
| masami | thank you | 12:57 |
| *** jki <jki!~jki@62.156.206.32> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) | 12:58 | |
| *** masami <masami!~masami@FL1-111-168-44-134.tky.mesh.ad.jp> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) | 12:58 | |
| patersonc | Cheers | 12:58 |
| *** Dr_Who <Dr_Who!~tgall@70.35.96.200> has quit IRC (Quit: So long and thanks for all the bits.) | 17:57 | |
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