18:05:18 <rpaik> #startmeeting CHAOSS Metrics monthly meeting
18:05:18 <collabot> Meeting started Tue Oct  3 18:05:18 2017 UTC.  The chair is rpaik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:05:18 <collabot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:05:18 <collabot> The meeting name has been set to 'chaoss_metrics_monthly_meeting'
18:05:34 <rpaik> #chair glink_
18:05:35 <collabot> Current chairs: glink_ rpaik
18:05:58 <rpaik> #topic coordination between metrics & software committees
18:06:03 <glink_> Topic 1) How do we coordinate between the committees of the CHAOSS community
18:06:40 <glink_> How can we draw the committees together in a productive manner?
18:07:22 <glink_> What should the output of the metrics committee be that would be helpful to the software committee?
18:08:07 <rpaik> #info rpaik asks what should be the artifact from metrics that will be useful for the software committee?
18:08:33 <glink_> The metrics in the Metrics GitHub repo currently describe examples for how to implement them.
18:09:36 <jsmanrique> hi!
18:09:48 <glink_> We had metrics on the wiki and have been moving them to the GitHub/chaoss/metrics repo
18:09:55 <glink_> Will the wiki go away?
18:10:16 <glink_> No, we can use the wiki for onboarding information and other stable information about the community.
18:12:23 <glink_> <The discussion moves to the D&I discussion on the mailing list>
18:13:03 <glink_> Emma and her D&I team had a fairly mature project and a question is how we can bring in a project like that and host it here?
18:13:49 <rpaik> #info while transitioning the information from wiki to repo, it's probably unclear for outsiders on how to get engaged
18:14:20 <glink_> What we might need is a definition of what output from the metrics committee is expected to direct the work and fuel the collaboration with the software committee.
18:15:18 <glink_> A danger we may face if software and metrics committee don't work well together is that their work diverges.
18:15:18 <aserebrenik> Jesus is concerned that the metrics committee prefers the metrics to be implementation-agnostic which makes it more difficult to implement them.
18:17:02 <glink_> One approach is for the software to implement ideas from the metrics community and bring back findings to inform future metrics definitions.
18:17:27 <glink_> Jesus sees an issue with a mismatch between the metrics that are currently implemented in the software and the metrics defined by the metrics committee
18:18:42 <glink_> Ildiko asks how we could keep metrics implementation agnostic. For example defining a metric based on pull-requests, then the implementation assumes to use GitHub as a data source only. How can a metric be implementation agnostic to work across the open source ecosystem.
18:18:45 <glink_> ?
18:20:07 <glink_> Matt: Two agnosticisms. 1) agnostic to the source of the data. {danger with the size of GitHub is that the language might resolve around that - we maybe should clean up the repository} 2) agnostic to the software a metric is implemented in.
18:21:55 <glink_> Maybe we should have a mapping exercise to identify which metrics are already implemented. What metrics are new?
18:22:27 <rpaik> #info Jesus suggests mapping metrics (e.g. code review) with existing software implementations
18:24:14 <aserebrenik> Lawrence asks how to define the basic demographics: how to define a person, their gender etc?
18:24:47 <glink_> David Wheeler suggests that we can get some data from CII Badge website for some communities, if they pursue a badge
18:26:58 <aserebrenik> @dizquierdo has 20-25 metrics to measure gender diversity. We also have several gender-related metrics in our papers.
18:26:58 <collabot> aserebrenik: Error: "dizquierdo" is not a valid command.
18:27:16 <aserebrenik> dizquierdo has 20-25 metrics to measure gender diversity. We also have several gender-related metrics in our papers.
18:27:48 <glink_> Daniel clarifies asks how to proceed.
18:28:47 <glink_> We already have the repository for the metrics
18:28:57 <glink_> Daniel asks how to link the software with the metric definitions.
18:29:31 <rpaik> #info suggestion for dizquierdo to add D&I metrics to the Metric GitHub
18:30:00 <glink_> Georg thinks the way GHdata links software and metrics could be way to do it: Provide a link within the software to the metric definition.
18:31:06 <glink_> Matt prefers to have focused discussions on metrics and software and not spread thin with a third discussion.
18:32:06 <glink_> Daniel shares and example of how work packages, e.g. D&I, can start in the metrics committee, and then at some point it moves to the software committee. The knowledge needs to flow in both ways.
18:33:12 <aserebrenik> ildikov stresses importance of documenting the discussions
18:33:24 <aserebrenik> e.g. for the purpose of onboarding
18:33:34 <rpaik> #info ildikov suggests documenting how new contributors can participate in CHAOSS
18:34:08 <glink_> Sean, Matt, and Daniel agree that we should document the process inside CHAOSS.
18:34:19 <glink_> Maybe move the discussion to the Governance Board meeting.
18:34:59 <glink_> Matt shares the idea of bakeoffs from the SPDX community which develops a standard and during the bakeoff tooling implementations are compared and experience shared.
18:35:21 <aserebrenik> https://spdx.org/
18:36:25 <rpaik> #topic code of conduct
18:37:03 <rpaik> #info glink_ summarizes the code of conduct (CoC) discussion
18:37:47 <glink_> How to move forward?
18:37:56 <glink_> Have a committee or discuss in the whole community
18:38:07 <rpaik> #info discussion on forming a work group to propose a CoC for CHAOSS
18:38:45 <glink_> Alexander's post provides a good checklist for our CoC
18:39:28 <rpaik> #info discussion on who should be responsible for enforcing the CoC
18:40:44 <aserebrenik> This checklist comes from Geek Feminism and is based on a survey of ~20 codes of conduct (NB more recent ones have not been surveyed).
18:41:47 <glink_> The discussion goes to the next steps
18:41:52 <rpaik> #info suggestion on iterating over GitHub
18:42:18 <glink_> Agreemend seems to exist that the Board will approve it, but the community will iterate to develop it
18:42:32 <glink_> The discussion could occur on the mailing list
18:42:45 <glink_> the document could live on the GitHub and get worked on there
18:43:05 <glink_> One suggestion shared by a few members is to have a short CoC, one short page
18:43:17 <glink_> "not solve a problem, before we have a problem"
18:43:32 <aserebrenik> ildikov suggests to keep the CoC short and simple
18:45:59 <aserebrenik> Matt suggests that glink_ collects the relevant codes of conduct, and starts to develop a code of conduct for CHAOSS.
18:48:00 <glink_> Georg will create a new repository on GitHub for governance of the full CHAOSS community
18:49:32 <glink_> David Wheeler asks for participants for the CII census 2.0 with a quick 2week turn-around. Suggestions for metrics and other contributions are welcome offline
18:50:48 <glink_> David Wheeler will send dwheeler@ida.org
18:51:06 <glink_> David will post to the mailing list
18:51:52 <glink_> Next Topic: OSS Europe in Prague
18:52:10 <glink_> We shifted the times and got a larger room
18:52:50 <glink_> Ray says: After kicking off the metrics committee at L.A., we could maybe focus on the software committee in Europe.
18:52:56 <glink_> We have 5 hours
18:53:15 <rpaik> #link https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/chaoss/events updated schedule on the events wiki
18:54:21 <rpaik> #info suggestion to do an overview presentation (1 hour) + software committee (2 hours) + metrics committee (1 hour) + etc.
18:55:34 <rpaik> #info demos also a possibility
18:59:17 <glink_> The meeting is coming to a close
18:59:39 <glink_> We did not get to the D&I and will continue with that on the Hangouts call next.
18:59:49 * jsmanrique will be there ;-)
19:00:01 * ildikov will be there too :)
19:00:02 <glink_> Meeting closed
19:00:26 <glink_> Hangout Meeting starts
19:02:13 <rpaik> #endmeeting