18:25:19 <tykeal> #startmeeting Inter-Project Infrastructure Services
18:25:19 <odl_meetbot> Meeting started Mon Sep 29 18:25:19 2014 UTC.  The chair is tykeal. Information about MeetBot at http://ci.openstack.org/meetbot.html.
18:25:19 <odl_meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
18:25:19 <odl_meetbot> The meeting name has been set to 'inter_project_infrastructure_services'
18:25:33 <regXboi> tykeal: thanks
18:25:37 <tykeal> sure
18:25:55 <regXboi> so: what about docs
18:26:06 <tykeal> #topic How to do cross project testing
18:26:46 <tykeal> #info tools we have: jenkins, sonar, nexus
18:27:41 <tykeal> #info docs & integration projects -- integrating the ecosystem
18:28:44 * dfarrell07 's network is flaking out, sorry
18:29:27 <tykeal> #chair dfarrell07
18:29:27 <odl_meetbot> Current chairs: dfarrell07 tykeal
18:29:27 <dfarrell07> #info Talking about tools we have, tools we need
18:29:30 <tykeal> :)
18:29:53 <dfarrell07> #info Tools we have: Jenkins, Sonar, Nexus, docs, integration projects
18:30:23 <dfarrell07> #info Tools we need: Branding strategy (I think that's what the board says)
18:30:57 <dfarrell07> #info "We need to scale tykeal"
18:31:26 <dfarrell07> #info Getting Started for Projects wiki is helpful for scaling andy
18:31:57 <regXboi> so I have a comment to Colin if I get a chance
18:32:04 <dfarrell07> ACK
18:33:11 <dfarrell07> #info General discussion about how projects get started, where they look at docs and such
18:34:05 <regXboi> that's fair
18:34:50 <dfarrell07> #info regXboi points out that there's some reasons to privilage important things like project starting/building wikis, group decides this is out of scope
18:35:33 <dfarrell07> #info Can't rely on individual projects talking to tykeal, doesn't scale, via rovarga
18:35:48 <dfarrell07> #info Possible solution is infra project, rovarga
18:36:10 <dfarrell07> #info Sounds great, but who will write it - colindixon
18:37:29 <dfarrell07> #info regXboi points out that adding tooling on the fly without process is a problem
18:38:26 <phrobb> #info colindixon notes that to outsource infrastructure from the projects you need a well defined interface.  That iterface today is POM files
18:38:59 <tykeal> #chair phrobb
18:38:59 <odl_meetbot> Current chairs: dfarrell07 phrobb tykeal
18:39:18 <dfarrell07> #info "Infra project" would be responsible for defining structure, API - rovarga
18:41:11 <dfarrell07> #info May need to hire someone to look a things like POM files, say they have issues. In general, if outsorcing project gen/tools, need more people first, then automate
18:42:29 <dfarrell07> #info continued discussion about automation vs person to help projects with infra/tools/building
18:42:39 <phrobb> #info rovarga wants it to be very easy for committers to start a new project with minimal knowledge of underlying infrastructure
18:44:02 * dfarrell07 would love help summing this one up
18:45:10 <dfarrell07> #info Issues/limitations with mvn being discussed
18:46:19 <phrobb> #info this infrastructure project would evaluate and document how changing infrastructure components would impact all projects.  example is moving from maven to gradle
18:48:10 <dfarrell07> #info Pushback on changing tooling, don't want to make this a per-release tool change. Need to become stable at some point.
18:50:07 <dfarrell07> #info Docs on how to use and audit build tools are a good first step, cool things in the future would be good of course, but making sure folks know what to do is 90%
18:53:17 <dfarrell07> #info starting to formalize problems, find people to fix them
18:53:31 <regXboi> effective-pom?
18:54:03 <dfarrell07> #info Problem: Many general POM issues
18:54:30 <dfarrell07> #info Problem: Projects don't know how to set up Jenkinds, POMs, Sonar, etc
18:54:36 <phrobb> #info cleaning up the POM hierarchy  is  a problem for DevinAvery
18:55:05 <dfarrell07> #info Problem: People should use odlparent and be able to tel lif they are dangerously overriding things
18:56:10 <phrobb> #info effective POM doesn't explain the hierarchy and references across different POM files from different projects
18:56:31 <dfarrell07> #info Problem: POM file structure is really *unknown word*, eg, don't mirror dir structure
19:00:11 <dfarrell07> #info Problem: HOWTOs and wiki pages can help once, but don't help with maintaining
19:00:36 <dfarrell07> #info Problem: How do we manage inter-project versions?
19:00:47 <dfarrell07> #info Problem: Howe do we "go back in time"
19:01:35 <regXboi> time check?
19:02:13 <dfarrell07> regXboi: this one ends at 12:15
19:02:19 <dfarrell07> PST
19:02:51 <dfarrell07> #info Problem: How do we bump versions?
19:04:09 <dbainbri> is the question how or when or both?
19:04:50 <dfarrell07> #info continued discussion about bumping versions
19:05:31 <dfarrell07> #info "What problem do we hate the most"? Let's pick one and focus on it.
19:06:04 <dfarrell07> #info Main problem proposal0: Versions
19:07:01 <dfarrell07> #info Problems that become inter-project actually only screw over a few people who do inter-project work, projects can/do ignore it
19:08:19 <dfarrell07> #info Hack fest to work on one or more of these projects, maybe tomorrow attack one of these
19:08:22 <dbainbri> When does a code commit constitute a change that requires a version tick?
19:08:43 <dfarrell07> dbainbri: Are you physicall here or should I relay that?
19:09:04 <zxiiro> Eclipse has some pretty detailed guidelines on bumping versions that might be worth looking at https://wiki.eclipse.org/Version_Numbering
19:10:11 <dfarrell07> #info Major problem proposal1: ODL parent does dep and plugin managment, not list of version strings, if you don't specifiy you get the right one, throw warning if you choose a different one, hard to override but not impossible
19:11:11 <regXboi> wait
19:11:25 <regXboi> third party in ODL-parent has all sorts of implications
19:12:02 <dfarrell07> #info Major proposal2: Make sure OpenFlow Java inherits from common parent
19:12:24 <dfarrell07> #info Major proposal3: Tool to check for this family of issues
19:13:05 <dfarrell07> #info properly commenting file and having code review may be better than tool to check for all possible mistakes in this domain
19:13:35 <dfarrell07> #info Tests are better, says many people
19:14:46 <dfarrell07> #info Major project proposal4: Make really solid POM file to use as example
19:15:56 <dfarrell07> #info Recap of major projects people seem to care about the most: Fix ODL parent, make ODL Java use it, docuemnt what POMs do and how they do it
19:17:03 <regXboi> does somebody smell boiling the ocean?
19:17:05 <dfarrell07> #info Who sould own ODL parent? How do we handle artifcats that you don't maintain in your code. Maybe scope creep here
19:18:13 <dfarrell07> #info TODO0: Fix ODL parent; with plugin managment; with dependency managment for 3rd party artifacts
19:18:39 <dfarrell07> #info TODO1: Convert OpenFlow Java to use TODO0 in best current practice
19:18:54 <dfarrell07> #info TODO2: Document what TODO1 solves, how and why
19:19:13 <dfarrell07> #info this needs to be an unconf or just grab a room and do it
19:19:33 <dfarrell07> #info send email to -discuss when this happens so others can find it
19:20:26 <dfarrell07> #info Edit to TODO0: It should not break other projects
19:21:19 <dfarrell07> #info Edit to TODO0: Get it into Gerrit, start thinking looking, don't merge soon
19:22:10 <dfarrell07> #endmeeting