16:00:22 <paulz> #startmeeting
16:00:22 <odl_meetbot> Meeting started Thu Mar 20 16:00:22 2014 UTC.  The chair is paulz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:22 <odl_meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:45 <paulz> Just waiting for folks right now
16:01:00 <paulz> #topic Meeting Topics
16:01:05 <gjs_cisco> Ok, glad to see I'm in the right place!
16:01:33 <paulz> Yep! Hopefully we'll get a few more souls here shortly...
16:02:29 <paulz> I had a few topics in mind: Project Proposal Status, Building the Tool Chain, Resources... if folks have any other topics in mind, please put them up.
16:05:51 <paulz> D'oh! We almost had Rob...
16:09:04 <paulz> One of the benefits/challenges with this IRC meeting format is that we can be patient, but I really hope some more folks show up soon...
16:09:48 <paulz> If no, I'll post the info I have and we'll reconviene soon... but we can wait for a little while longer.
16:10:10 <gjs_cisco> Yeah, it's easy to do other stuff while waiting for someone to show up...
16:10:29 <RobDolin_> Hello, sorry I'm late, was having wi-fi connectivity issues.
16:10:43 <paulz> No worries, good to have you! Small group so far...
16:11:36 <paulz> I have a few topics in mind, do you have any you'd like to see addressed?
16:12:02 <RobDolin_> Yes, give me a moment and I'll post on a wiki page...
16:13:10 <RobDolin_> BTW, have you started the MeetBot ?
16:13:13 <paulz> Yep
16:13:29 <paulz> The current topic is "Topics" :-)
16:14:28 <RobDolin_> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/CrossProject:Documentation_Group#Thu.2C_3.2F20 <- Potential agenda for today
16:15:23 <RobDolin_> I like the meta-ness of topic = topic ;)
16:15:39 <paulz> That looks great, Rob
16:16:16 <RobDolin_> Cool anything to add Paul or gjs?
16:16:46 <gjs_cisco> Looks like a good start, and you can call me Greg :)
16:16:58 <RobDolin_> Thanks Greg :)
16:17:14 <paulz> Yeah, let's go with these as topics.
16:17:22 <paulz> #topic Welcome and Intros
16:17:34 <paulz> Looks like we already got a head start on these!
16:18:05 <RobDolin_> #info Rob Dolin from Microsoft / MS Open Tech (http://www.MSOpenTech.com)
16:18:34 <paulz> #info Paul Zimmerman from Cisco / Developer Docs
16:18:45 <gjs_cisco> Greg Saunders, I work with Paul
16:19:05 <paulz> Well, with such a small crowd today, I guess we can move on!
16:19:21 <RobDolin_> @greg if you put #info at the beginning, it will be recorded into the summary minutes
16:19:34 <RobDolin_> There's a quick cheat sheet at: https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
16:19:52 <gjs_cisco> #info Greg Saunders, I work with Paul
16:19:58 <RobDolin_> :)
16:20:01 <gjs_cisco> Thanks, newb over here
16:20:01 <paulz> #topic Housekeeping
16:20:25 <RobDolin_> I was thinking we should request a "documentation" listserv
16:20:31 <RobDolin_> This would be similar to what the integration project started with.
16:20:42 <paulz> Yeah, that sounds good.
16:21:13 <gjs_cisco> Who can set that up?
16:21:19 <paulz> Do you know who to work with on that? I can run with it, but if you have a contact, that would be helpful
16:21:20 <RobDolin_> If we later spin-up a specific code project (ex: "Professional Quality HTML Documentation") then we could get the whole batch of listservs for that project.
16:21:44 <paulz> I started a project proposal
16:21:49 <paulz> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Project_Proposals:Documentation
16:21:56 <RobDolin_> I'm guessing we would just email the Linux Foundation helpdesk to request a listserv.
16:22:16 <paulz> But it obviously needs a lot of rework and updating. I didn't find time this past week to work on it.
16:22:23 <RobDolin_> Paul, would you want to request LF set-up a "documentation" listserv for us?
16:22:32 <paulz> Yep, I am happy to do it.
16:22:52 <paulz> #action Paul to contact LF for "documentation" listserv
16:23:12 <RobDolin_> Cool :)
16:23:21 <paulz> Also in housekeeping, I'll continue to update the project proposal.
16:23:27 <RobDolin_> Ready for next topic?
16:23:39 <paulz> #action Paul to update project proposal
16:23:43 <paulz> OK, now ready!
16:23:52 <RobDolin_> I'm thinking that we should consider having both...
16:24:14 <paulz> having both... ?
16:24:25 <RobDolin_> Go ahead and change topic, I'll share my thinking in the next one
16:24:45 <paulz> #topic Maturity of Documentation
16:25:43 <RobDolin_> I'm thinking we should have both a general "documentation" cross-group team and a "Professional-Quality Documentation" (PQD ?) Project
16:26:36 <RobDolin_> There's the general need for documentation and encouraging documentation across all projects (controller, vtn, ovsdb plug-in, etc.) and there's the need for professional quality documentation like was discussed on the last call.
16:27:15 <paulz> There are several tasks here, so it would make some sense to separate them, even if the same people are doing it!
16:27:16 <RobDolin_> There could be both: https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/CrossProject:Documentation_Group (group) and https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Project_Proposals:Documentation (project)
16:27:34 <RobDolin_> Agreed.
16:28:07 <gjs_cisco> How do we know when we are doing Professional quality work?
16:28:19 <gjs_cisco> I mean, how is it differentiated?
16:28:30 <paulz> That makes sense. We have the tools to work on, where I see Colin and Sean helping (hopefully) and we have the improved docs, where we need to do tha actual writing.
16:28:32 <RobDolin_> Maybe another word beside "professional" ;)
16:28:53 <paulz> Greg, we are professionals, so our work is professional quality :-)
16:29:11 <paulz> As opposed to the engineers doing the docs and it being, well, suboptimal.
16:29:24 <gjs_cisco> got it
16:30:39 <paulz> OK, so two projects... one for the tooling and one for the quality improvement. That makes a lot of sense rather than trying to lump it all in one project.
16:31:02 <gjs_cisco> Agreed
16:31:51 <paulz> I can work to update the existing project plan and also create another one to reflect this idea... I can get the bones together this week, and maybe we can review for the next meet?
16:33:34 <paulz> D'oh! Lost Rob again... sounds like he's having some issues with connectivity. Let's give him a couple to weight in on this before changing topics.
16:33:43 <gjs_cisco> ok
16:38:01 <RobDolin> Sorry, for my outage, <grumble> wi-fi
16:38:51 <paulz> Ah, technology!
16:39:02 <RobDolin> :)
16:39:17 <gjs_cisco> It's what keeps us tech writers in business!
16:39:38 <RobDolin> Not sure what you guys covered in my absence, but I was thinking there would be a "Professional Quality Documentation" project (or another name) that would include ...
16:40:10 <RobDolin> ... (a) Documentation creation tool chain as described on our 3/11 WebEx call
16:40:38 <RobDolin> ... (b) Actual text/images/etc. in the documentation
16:40:54 <RobDolin> ... (c) output and hosting of said documentation (ex: http://docs.opendaylight.org/)
16:41:27 <paulz> Yeah, perfect... so tooling, content, and delivery. Makes sense... I like it!
16:41:47 <RobDolin> ... (e) Ongoing updating, evolution, etc.
16:42:03 <paulz> Did I miss a (d)?
16:42:25 <RobDolin> (d) mechanism for reporting doc bugs
16:42:57 <paulz> Ahhhh.... good. Reporting *and* resolution process
16:43:11 <RobDolin> +1 ;)
16:43:32 <paulz> This is great... good ideas, Rob!
16:43:40 <RobDolin> The cross-group "documentation" team might be a central point of coordination for:
16:43:54 <RobDolin> ... (1) Projects doing wiki documentation
16:44:07 <RobDolin> ... (2) The PQD Project
16:44:21 <RobDolin> ... (3) Any projects doing automated documentation (ex: JavaDoc)
16:46:05 <paulz> This is great... I'm happy to update the Project Proposal for a-e above, and also update the Group page with some details. I can plan to get the updates done this week and out to you guys (and those who are absent) for a review.
16:46:25 <gjs_cisco> Yes, this all sounds goos
16:46:27 <gjs_cisco> good
16:46:46 <paulz> Having the cross-group team also including the automated docs might help increase participation
16:47:33 <paulz> #action Paul to update Project Proposal and Doc Group wiki pages for review by team
16:47:33 <RobDolin_> Back
16:47:39 <RobDolin_> Cool.
16:48:06 <RobDolin_> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/CrossProject:Documentation_Group <- Doc Group
16:48:15 <paulz> Thanks!
16:48:41 <paulz> Ahhh gone again!
16:49:06 <RobDolin_> Nope, I'm still here
16:49:16 <RobDolin_> The other connection dropped
16:49:30 <paulz> OK, good! So are we OK with this topic for now and ready to move on?
16:49:58 <RobDolin_> Would we want to rename the "Documentation" project "Professional Quality Documentation" (or some other name?)
16:51:00 <RobDolin_> I worry that "Documentation" is a bit too broad for a project name
16:51:18 <RobDolin_> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Project_Proposals:Documentation <- Current project proposal
16:51:23 <paulz> Yes, I think that will clarify what we are trying to do. I think "Professional Quality Documentation" is OK, as quality improvement, doc management, and presentation are our goals...
16:51:41 <gjs_cisco> Sure, that works.
16:52:02 <paulz> That can be part of the update I make to the plan this week.
16:52:35 <RobDolin_> Cool.  You may want to also migrate the URL.
16:52:57 <RobDolin_> #agreed "Documentation" project proposal to be renamed "Professional Quality Documentation"
16:53:23 <paulz> Perfect!
16:53:47 <paulz> OK, next topic?
16:54:08 <RobDolin_> That's all I have for today.
16:54:10 <paulz> #topic Next Steps
16:54:37 <RobDolin_> Anything else you guys can think of?
16:55:17 <paulz> Rob, you had a note under Next Steps about increasing participation. Obviously, we need to do that! I'll follow back the Colin and Nan, and maybe Ed, and see what we can do about some more bodies.
16:55:47 <RobDolin_> We could also draft a mail to send to the "discuss" alias inviting people to participate
16:55:55 <paulz> Colin mentioned he might be able to get a writer, and I just got approval to get a dedicated resource on the ODL docs.
16:56:12 <RobDolin_> Nice!
16:56:36 <paulz> Rob, that's a great idea re: the discuss alias.
16:56:46 <RobDolin_> I've heard rumors of some possible writers coming from another company too.
16:57:07 <paulz> Jan Medved mentioned someone from Brocade, but no specific name so far...
16:57:09 <RobDolin_> Want to do another Chat on Tue, 3/25 ?
16:57:23 <paulz> Sure... thinking about doing it in the afternoon so Nan can join us.
16:57:28 <RobDolin_> We can put recruiting more volunteers on the agenda
16:57:52 <paulz> Great. I can send the invite...
16:58:07 <RobDolin_> Sure.  I could do 5pm Pacific.
16:58:11 <paulz> #action Paul to set up 3/25 meet
16:58:16 <RobDolin_> Are you guys both on the west coast?
16:58:23 <paulz> Yeah we are
16:58:34 <gjs_cisco> 5pm on Tue works for me
16:58:39 <paulz> That should be good
16:58:42 <RobDolin_> I've found the east cost folks don't seem to mind 5pm P / 8pm E since they can get home, have dinner, and then join.
16:58:57 <paulz> OK, good!
16:58:58 <RobDolin_> #Agreed next meeting will be 5pm Pacific on Tue, 3/25
16:59:18 <paulz> OK, good! Anything else we want to discuss?
17:00:00 <gjs_cisco> I got nothing
17:00:33 <RobDolin_> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/index.php?title=CrossProject:Documentation_Group <- We can start building the agenda for the next meeting on the wiki
17:00:38 <RobDolin_> Have a good day and a great weekend.  'Catch you guys on email and next Tue :)
17:00:56 <paulz> You both have the same!
17:01:06 <gjs_cisco> Bye, guys.
17:01:09 <paulz> #endmeeting