01:45:10 <edwarnicke> #startmeeting
01:45:10 <odl_meetbot> Meeting started Fri Jan 17 01:45:10 2014 UTC.  The chair is edwarnicke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
01:45:10 <odl_meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
01:45:20 <edwarnicke> Welcome to the 5:45pm Hydrogen Release Meeting
01:45:27 <hideyuki> Hello.
01:45:27 <edwarnicke> #topic rollcall
01:45:47 <dbainbri> Hello
01:45:53 <edwarnicke> Please #info in with names and projects (if you are representing a project)
01:46:01 <hideyuki> #info Hideyuki Tai for VTN
01:46:03 <tykeal> #info Andrew Grimberg for infrastructure support
01:46:10 <dbainbri> #info dbainbri for self
01:46:16 <tykeal> hehe
01:47:06 <edwarnicke> dbainbri: I had no idea we had programing language representation ;)
01:47:13 <edwarnicke> Christine_: Are you here?
01:47:29 <Christine_> hi, I'm here.
01:47:39 <edwarnicke> Would you please #info in for the minutes?
01:48:13 <edwarnicke> RobDolin: We are doing rollcall, would you #info in?
01:48:19 <Christine_> #info Christine for SNMP4SDN
01:48:27 <Christine_> thanks, Ed
01:48:35 <RobDolin> #info RobDolin
01:49:00 <edwarnicke> #topic review of outcome of 9am Meeting
01:49:36 <edwarnicke> I'd like to take a brief moment to go through the #agreed items from this mornings meeting, to see if you guys object (because its not really #agreed until we all agree)
01:49:54 <edwarnicke> #link https://meetings.opendaylight.org/opendaylight-meeting/2014/opendaylight-meeting.2014-01-16-17.00.html summary of this mornings meeting
01:49:56 <Christine_> sure :)
01:49:57 <networkstatic> #info networkstatic for OVSDB
01:50:25 <networkstatic> #info Brent :) for OVSDB
01:51:11 * networkstatic looks around awkwardly
01:51:22 * tykeal looks back at networkstatic
01:51:30 <networkstatic> lol
01:51:42 <RobDolin> Hey Brent and Ty :)
01:51:46 <tykeal> :)
01:51:48 <edwarnicke> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Draft_Syslog_Level_Settings Log level recommendations, we agreed to change 'bundle' to 'module' for INFO, and to add messages received from or sent to the wire for TRACE
01:51:50 <networkstatic> hehe hi guys :)
01:52:04 <edwarnicke> Is everybody here OK with those changes to log level recommendations?
01:52:43 <RobDolin> #info Spreadsheet of work items is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoSzir1BfjyWdDQyVElWNG9mcWxhblREckZjbjFxUVE#gid=1
01:52:51 <edwarnicke> Thx RobDolin  :)
01:52:58 <hideyuki> Ok.
01:53:01 * tykeal sighs
01:53:07 <networkstatic> looks good here, one thing edwarnicke  does a toString w/ formatting interest anyone?
01:53:07 <tykeal> use #link people ;)
01:53:08 <edwarnicke> Cool :)
01:53:16 <networkstatic> whats link?
01:53:19 * tykeal feels like a grinch for saying it
01:53:23 <networkstatic> :)
01:53:34 * networkstatic think tykeal is a grinch
01:53:37 <edwarnicke> #agreed Concur with 9am meeting on: change "bundle" to "module" in the log level recommendations
01:53:38 <tykeal> the command #link == #info except that it does hyperlinking
01:53:52 <edwarnicke> #agreed Concur with 9am meeting on: expand the scope of trace to include items such as logging messages received and others
01:53:56 <tykeal> it should be used if you've got a URL you're adding to the minutes
01:54:14 <networkstatic> ahh, sorry, i rtfm :)
01:54:23 <RobDolin> @tykeal - Thanks :)
01:54:31 <RobDolin> #link Spreadsheet of work items is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoSzir1BfjyWdDQyVElWNG9mcWxhblREckZjbjFxUVE#gid=1
01:54:39 <edwarnicke> We also agreed at the 9am meeting that individual projects can choose whether or not System.out.println is allowed in their Integration and unit tests, but in production running code it should not be used
01:54:39 <tykeal> haha... the rtfm doesn't actually say that, it's hard won experience over the last few meetings ;)
01:54:40 <edwarnicke> and
01:54:51 <edwarnicke> code that does not get run by launching the controller in the normal fashion can use system.out.println at the project's discretion, for example, to provide a CLI that runs outside the JVM
01:54:58 <edwarnicke> Is everyone OK with that?
01:55:04 <hideyuki> edwarnicke: Ok on these, too.
01:55:17 <networkstatic> +1
01:55:35 <Christine_> agree
01:56:09 <edwarnicke> #agreed Concur with 9am meeting that  individual projects can choose whether or not System.out.println is allowed in their Integration and unit tests, but in production running code it should not be used
01:56:28 <edwarnicke> #agreed Concur with 9am meeting that code that does not get run by launching the controller in the normal fashion can use system.out.println at the project's discretion, for example, to provide a CLI that runs outside the JVM
01:57:17 <edwarnicke> There was also a brief discussion about treating System.err.println and e.printStackTrace the same way as System.out.println... everybody good with those (feel free to raise objetions if you have them)
01:57:52 <edwarnicke> Madhu: Would you #info in?
01:58:06 <hideyuki> edwarnicke: no objection on it.
01:58:08 <Madhu> #info Madhu for ovsdb
01:58:23 <Madhu> networkstatic hey buddy
01:58:32 <edwarnicke> We also at the 9am put together https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoSzir1BfjyWdDQyVElWNG9mcWxhblREckZjbjFxUVE#gid=15 to report out to the TSC weekly
01:59:11 <edwarnicke> #topic per project status
01:59:14 <RobDolin> Would it make sense to document the two log decisiosn we just agreed on at: https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Draft_Syslog_Level_Settings or some other location?
01:59:37 <edwarnicke> RobDolin: I believe we did up log
01:59:49 <edwarnicke> (I asked about them, and recorded concurence via #agreed)
02:00:10 <edwarnicke> RobDolin: I completely agree with you though that its not really #agreed till both meetings get a chance to weigh in
02:01:09 <RobDolin> I think we have them well captured in the minutes and I like that you made sure that both meetings agreed, but I'm wondering if we should document somewhere on the wiki since digging through the minutes from these IRC sessions might be hard when we're wondering about these decisions in a month or two.
02:01:11 <edwarnicke> In an effort to expedite per project reporting, would the project representatives please #info the items the status of the items they are working on from the spreadsheet
02:01:25 <edwarnicke> (feel free to talk all at once :) )
02:01:43 <edwarnicke> RobDolin: That's an excellent idea, would you do that?
02:01:55 <hideyuki> +1 on RobDolin , good idea.
02:03:20 <edwarnicke> hideyuki, Christine_ , networkstatic , Madhu feel free to start #info-ing status on spreadsheet items any time now ;)
02:03:30 <Christine_> ok
02:03:32 <hideyuki> edwarnicke: ok.
02:03:51 * Madhu looking
02:04:51 <hideyuki> #info "Remove all uses of System.out.println" is DONE. https://git.opendaylight.org/gerrit/#/c/4258/
02:05:00 <Madhu> #info ovsdb : all exceptions are logged as bugs and being addressed.
02:05:16 <RobDolin> @EdWarnicke - Done; added "Guidelines" section at bottom of https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Draft_Syslog_Level_Settings  to capture decisions in wiki /cc @Hideyuki
02:06:32 <Madhu> #info versions jenkins job is completed
02:06:37 <hideyuki> #info VTN will remove System.err and printStackTrace.
02:06:50 <edwarnicke> #agreed to add decisions on the changes to https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Draft_Syslog_Level_Settings to the bottom of the page
02:06:50 <Madhu> #info OVSDB dependency convergence fixes are in
02:07:00 <edwarnicke> #info decisions on the changes to https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Draft_Syslog_Level_Settings to the bottom of the page added by RobDolin
02:07:06 <Madhu> #info OVSDB working on fixing the logs.
02:07:39 <hideyuki> #info "Insert copyright/licence headers" is DONE on VTN.
02:07:49 <Madhu> #info OVSDB working on release readiness as per the recommended guideline process (such as <scm> tags etc...)
02:08:08 <hideyuki> I'll change the status of "Insert copyright/licence headers" for VTN to "DONE" later.
02:08:15 <edwarnicke> hideyuki: Thank you :)
02:08:30 <Madhu> regarding the copyright
02:08:34 <edwarnicke> Folks, please make sure to update status on the spreadsheet and insert any relavent details in the 'Notes' column for each item :)
02:08:38 <Christine_> #info SNMP4SDN is removing all uses of System.out.println
02:08:39 <edwarnicke> Madhu: Yes?
02:08:41 <Madhu> we have added it to all the java files
02:08:53 <Madhu> how about the pom and other files. what is the final decision ?
02:09:11 <Madhu> is it required for all the non-java files as well ?
02:09:14 <edwarnicke> I think the current decision is to add it to all feasible files
02:09:29 <Madhu> feasible ? : anything that takes comments ?
02:09:36 <hideyuki> including .gitigonre ?
02:09:39 <edwarnicke> If you have a case where you feel it should be otherwise, please feel free to raise it
02:09:46 <hideyuki> including README files ?
02:09:46 <edwarnicke> LOL
02:09:53 <Madhu> lol.
02:09:56 <tykeal> definitely the README! ;)
02:10:00 <Madhu> .gitignore (i don't think so)
02:10:01 <edwarnicke> hideyuki: You raise some interesting possible exceptions :)
02:10:31 <edwarnicke> Can we agree that .gitignore and README should be exempt, and having so #agreed we will bounce it to the morning meetings to see how they feel?
02:10:44 <Madhu> +1
02:10:45 <tykeal> I believe there was some discussion about it in the .gitignore but as .gitignore accepts comments (# lines) there isn't any reason _not_ to add it there as well
02:10:49 <hideyuki> +1
02:11:01 <Madhu> edwarnicke: isn't it also strange to see copyright in config ini files ?
02:11:13 <Madhu> and sample resources files ?
02:11:14 <edwarnicke> It would feel that way to me, yes
02:11:15 <hideyuki> tykeal: this mail? https://lists.opendaylight.org/pipermail/discuss/2014-January/001071.html
02:11:31 <tykeal> hideyuki: that would be the one
02:11:34 <edwarnicke> So shall we add config.ini to our list
02:11:49 <edwarnicke> Madhu: Can you list the sample resource files you are thinking of?
02:12:23 <Madhu> edwarnicke: yes. we have a sample local.conf file in the resources/ folder
02:12:30 <Madhu> that can be used for openstack deployments
02:12:41 <Madhu> certainly not a copyright of open daylight :)
02:12:44 <edwarnicke> Shall we suggest simply not putting copyright notices in configuration files then?
02:12:48 <Madhu> it is copied from devstack
02:12:52 <Madhu> i think so
02:13:01 <hideyuki> edwarnicke: Agreed on your suggestion.
02:13:02 <edwarnicke> What do other folks think?
02:13:08 <edwarnicke> Christine_: are you onboard?
02:13:12 <tykeal> edwarnicke: that's a very reasonable suggestion
02:13:15 <Madhu> also, i have sample files such as POSTMAN scripts :)
02:13:19 <networkstatic> agree
02:13:30 <networkstatic> its  more on boarding stuffs
02:13:46 <Christine_> oh, yes.
02:13:50 <edwarnicke> #agreed copyright/license headers need not go into configuration files, .gitignore, or READMEs
02:13:53 <Madhu> it is easy to add of course. but very strange to do that
02:14:03 <edwarnicke> Madhu: Yeah, feels weird
02:14:04 <Christine_> agree with the discussion above.
02:14:05 <hideyuki> edwarnicke: including .gitreview right?
02:14:26 <edwarnicke> I'd be happy to include that too :)
02:14:34 <hideyuki> edwarnicke: OK!
02:14:38 <networkstatic> i think one came from RackSpace didn't they?
02:14:47 <networkstatic> that macnamara pushed
02:14:50 <networkstatic> not sure
02:14:57 <edwarnicke> #agreed copyright/license headers need not go into .gitreview
02:15:07 <hideyuki> edwarnicke: thank you!
02:15:31 <edwarnicke> Madhu: Back to your question... do we want to suggest that pom.xml files are configuration files for the build
02:15:32 <edwarnicke> ?
02:15:34 <networkstatic> will drop Phil a reminder to not send those too :)
02:16:05 <Madhu> edwarnicke: yes.
02:16:25 <edwarnicke> Madhu: And thus pom.xml files do not need copyright/license headers?  What do other folks think about that?
02:16:57 <Christine_> I think it's fine...
02:17:20 <tykeal> honestly, that one is sort of iffy to me
02:17:27 <edwarnicke> tykeal: Please voice your concerns
02:18:14 <tykeal> yes, those pom.xml files are configuration files to the builds, but they're also integral to the code in a way. They're built by the devs in the same way that a Makefile would be. Many Makefiles have copyright notices in them
02:18:29 <edwarnicke> Hmm...
02:19:54 <tykeal> that's my take at least
02:20:03 <edwarnicke> Could we agree to bounce this to the OpenDaylight Foundation Attorneys to ask if pom.xml files are copyrightable or not?
02:20:03 <edwarnicke> IANAL, but I have a lot of experience around this sort of stuff... and I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't copyrightable because they lack expressive content...
02:20:07 <edwarnicke> tykeal: Thank you for raising the point :)
02:20:51 <tykeal> sure, we can bring it up to the Attorneys
02:21:12 <edwarnicke> #agreed raise the question to the attorneys as to whether we need copyright/license headers in pom.xml files
02:21:16 <edwarnicke> #topic documentation
02:21:23 <edwarnicke> RobDolin: Are you still with us?
02:21:46 <edwarnicke> RobDolin: Would you be willing to lead the documentation topic of discussion?
02:22:44 <RobDolin> Sure.
02:22:50 <RobDolin> #info https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/CrossProject:Hydrogen_Release_Work - Wiki pages for User Guide Template and Developer Guide Template are linked from there
02:23:17 <RobDolin> Big thanks to @Kudo @Luis and the rest of the team who provided feedback.
02:23:32 <RobDolin> There's an open question on the discuss email list if log documentation should go in the User Guide or the Developer Guide.
02:23:43 <RobDolin> Do folks have strong opinions here?
02:23:52 <edwarnicke> You mean how to set log levels?
02:24:25 <hideyuki> No comments so far on document templates.
02:24:28 <RobDolin> @EdWarnicke - No, I think this is more of documentation for logs like what various log lines mean.
02:24:51 <RobDolin> @Hideyuki - Cool.  Thanks.
02:25:24 <edwarnicke> RobDolin: Still not following, but will look at the thread on the lists
02:25:54 <Christine_> thanks for the document templates, no comment so far
02:25:54 <edwarnicke> RobDolin: Do we have a place for folks to start working on their per project contributions to docs yet?
02:26:03 <edwarnicke> #info no comments on doc templates so far
02:26:06 <RobDolin> @EdWarnicke - Sounds good; thanks.
02:26:12 <RobDolin> @Christine - Thanks :)
02:26:42 <edwarnicke> Are we done on docs then for this meeting?
02:26:49 <RobDolin> @EdWarnicke - AFAIK, some of the projects already have pretty robust documentation.
02:26:55 <chrisprice_> @RobDolin:  Hi Rob personal opinion is the setting of log levels etc in the user guide and meaning in the dev guide.
02:27:19 <edwarnicke> chrisprice_: Welcome :)
02:27:21 <RobDolin> #help Project team members, please take a look at the User Guide Template and Developer Guide Template and provided any feedback on discuss email list or edit the wiki pages.
02:27:43 <edwarnicke> #topic tomorrows 5:45pm meeting
02:27:48 <RobDolin> @ChrisPrice - Thanks; that seems like a very reasonable approach.
02:28:03 <edwarnicke> There's an open question as to whether there should be a 5:45pm meeting tomorrow, since its Saturday in Asia
02:28:09 <chrisprice_> Thanks Ed, been following.
02:28:10 <edwarnicke> Do folks have an opinion?
02:28:33 <hideyuki> hmm.
02:28:41 <edwarnicke> (I am inclined to cancel for tomorrow, and inquire about whether we need it on 5:45pm PST Sunday as that's Monday in Asia)
02:29:20 <hideyuki> I can attend to the tomorrow meeting.
02:29:21 <networkstatic> makes sense
02:29:25 <networkstatic> ah
02:29:27 <chrisprice_> Actually Ed good proposal.  (my attendance record leaves much to be desired though)
02:29:27 <networkstatic> nm :)
02:29:39 <edwarnicke> Christine_: Thoughts?
02:29:39 <Christine_> I can't attend tomorrow's meeting because of weekend.
02:29:56 <hideyuki> I cannot attend the meeting on 5:45pm PST Sunday...
02:30:07 <edwarnicke> hideyuki: OK
02:30:07 <tykeal> Christine_: you make a valid case as to edwarnicke point ;)
02:30:22 <RobDolin> @EdWarnicke - I agreed with canceling Friday 5:45pm (Pacific)
02:30:30 <edwarnicke> Shall we resume the 5:45pm PST meetings 5:45pm PST on Monday then?
02:30:35 <hideyuki> No, Let me correct.  I can attend the meeting on 5:45pm PST Sunday...
02:30:41 <edwarnicke> hideyuki: Ah
02:30:42 <edwarnicke> Ok
02:30:53 <tykeal> I can't make a Sunday meeting easily
02:30:55 <hideyuki> edwarnicke: Agreed on canceling on Friday 5.45 pm.
02:31:04 <edwarnicke> Would someone be willing to volunteer to lead the 5:45pm PST Sunday meeting?
02:31:24 <edwarnicke> (I promise you, if I can do it certainly any of you can ;) )
02:31:49 <networkstatic> i will but this is my first exposure to has tag mania
02:32:02 <networkstatic> unless it needs to be TSC
02:32:03 <networkstatic> nm
02:32:04 <networkstatic> lol
02:32:08 <edwarnicke> Totally doesn't need to be TSC
02:32:21 <RobDolin> @NetworkStatic - https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot has a nice Howto section
02:32:27 <edwarnicke> #agreed to cancel 5:45pm PST Friday meeting
02:32:32 <networkstatic> thanks Rob
02:32:38 <edwarnicke> #agreed to have 5:45pm PST Sunday meeting
02:32:46 <Madhu> networkstatic: tags are not new to u twitter man :)
02:32:49 <edwarnicke> #info networkstatic has volunteered to run 5:45pm PST Sunday meeting
02:33:03 <networkstatic> lol, these mean something not #catsarecool
02:33:05 <edwarnicke> #topic any other topics before we close?
02:33:21 <edwarnicke> So... anything else before we close?
02:33:25 <dbainbri> shall i bring up docker here?
02:33:26 <hideyuki> Wait a seconds.
02:33:27 <Madhu> networkstatic: we shud add that to #meetbot.
02:33:30 <edwarnicke> dbainbri: Please :)
02:33:32 <networkstatic> hehe
02:33:45 <edwarnicke> #topic docker
02:33:53 <edwarnicke> dbainbri: You have the floor :)
02:34:05 <dbainbri> brought up. my plan is to at minimum generate docker images for the 3 packages.
02:34:07 <hideyuki> Where should we create Developer Guide and User guide?
02:34:14 <hideyuki> On wiki? or somewhere else?
02:34:25 <dbainbri> have other thoughts are well around auto scaling, but that is likely post release.
02:34:46 <edwarnicke> hideyuki: I would think on wiki.  I know colindixon was researching using Transclusion, could you email discuss asking him where he is with that?
02:35:09 <edwarnicke> #info dbainbri has volunteered to do docker for each of the three release editions
02:35:18 <tykeal> lol
02:35:21 <hideyuki> edwarnicke: Thank you. I will send a email.
02:35:24 <edwarnicke> dbainbri: Please follow up with shague as I believe he is coordinating release artifact
02:35:27 <tykeal> way to volunteer :)
02:35:37 <dbainbri> lol, there was some pre-meeting talk ;)
02:35:44 <edwarnicke> dbainbri: Did I volunteer you to fast?
02:36:02 <dbainbri> no worries.
02:36:09 <edwarnicke> Cool
02:36:24 <edwarnicke> Anything else folks would like to raise before we close?
02:37:07 <Christine_> no more~
02:37:17 <networkstatic> +1 :)
02:37:19 <edwarnicke> Thank you to all participants :)
02:37:22 <hideyuki> No for the meeting. But I have a question on Bugzilla to Andrew. After the close, I'll ask him.
02:37:22 <edwarnicke> #endmeeting