17:00:08 <phrobb> #startmeeting
17:00:08 <odl_meetbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 10 17:00:08 2014 UTC.  The chair is phrobb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:08 <odl_meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:15 <dmm> #info dmm
17:00:24 <dmm> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/TSC:Main#Meeting_Agenda
17:00:57 <phrobb> #topic TSC members please #info in
17:02:51 <regXboi> phrobb, do you need help with scribing?
17:03:01 <edwarnicke___> #info Ed Warnicke
17:03:01 <regXboi> (he asked as he waited for webex to start)
17:03:04 <phrobb> regXboi:  always :-)
17:03:16 <phrobb> chair regXboi
17:03:18 <regXboi> I'll re ping once I'm on the bridge and then you can #chair me
17:03:25 <phrobb> #chair regXboi
17:03:25 <odl_meetbot> Current chairs: phrobb regXboi
17:03:27 <regXboi> and others can be afraid :)
17:03:31 <cdub> #info Chris Wright
17:03:32 <RobDolin> I'm glad to help with scribe'ing also.
17:03:51 <alagalah> Howdy
17:04:28 <vijoy> #info vijoy
17:04:59 <kwatsen> #info Kent Watsen
17:05:10 <RobDolin> #info Rob Dolin proxy for Rajeev Nagar (Microsoft)
17:05:51 <phrobb> #topic Agenda Bashing
17:06:06 <regXboi> finally made it
17:06:08 <ChrsPriceAB> #info Chris Price joined
17:06:50 <alagalah> Hey regXboi
17:07:02 <regXboi> morning - getting my fingers loose :)
17:07:21 <phrobb> #info If anyone has any comments for last week's minutes, please make them in meeting, or on the TSC mailing list
17:07:50 <phrobb> #topic Creation Review - Documentation
17:07:52 <regXboi> #action take discussion and proposed revision of charter re election to list (deadline 6/2/2014)
17:08:06 <edwarnicke___> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Project_Proposals:Documentation
17:10:00 <regXboi> phrobb - I'm going to be talking here soon - can you scribe :)
17:11:07 <phrobb> regXboi:  yep
17:11:51 <RobDolin_> #info dmm asks about documentation automation
17:11:54 <phrobb> #info: q - how much automation/tooling available?
17:13:05 <phrobb> #info regXboi asks how docs thrown off as side effect of project build fits in to this doc plan
17:13:09 <edwarnicke___> #info regXboi asks about build generated docs like maven site generation
17:16:00 <cdub> maven site++
17:16:29 <alagalah> Have you guys decided on Ascitext or docbooks ?
17:16:48 <edwarnicke___> alagalah: I was led to believe that asciidoc translated to docbook...
17:17:10 <RobDolin_> #info regXboi volunteers to be a committed resource for the documentation project if it includes auto-generated documentation
17:17:16 * edwarnicke___ <3 docbook, but understands it has a... learning curve ;)
17:17:24 <alagalah> I found docbooks to be "cumbersome" or overly "feature rich" :)
17:17:25 <regXboi> and now I go back to scribing :)
17:17:46 <edwarnicke___> alagalah: I understand that... I am *told* that asciidoc fixes a lot of that
17:18:04 <alagalah> edwarnicke___: I have been told similar
17:18:24 <edwarnicke___> alagalah: I also like LaTeX... so use that to calibrate how you should interpret my thoughts ;)
17:18:33 <RobDolin_> #info dmm asks: will there be outgoing documentation as well as technical documentation ?
17:18:47 <regXboi> edwarnicke__: under the heading of "no good deed goes unpunished :-)"
17:18:53 <RobDolin_> #info Mathieu and Paul suggest this may be down the road
17:18:58 <alagalah> edwarnicke___: well I don't have cycles to commit to help so my opinion is moot :)
17:19:26 <edwarnicke___> alagalah: LOL... opinions are often helpful for the guys who are committing cycles :)
17:20:46 <regXboi> #info regXboi has added himself as resource and committer
17:21:31 <phrobb> #agreed The Documentation Project into Incubation
17:21:32 <cdub> any reason not to #info?
17:21:41 <regXboi> wow - you beat me to it :)
17:21:42 <ChrsPriceAB> Congrats to the Doc team!
17:21:52 <colindixon> Congrats and thanks so much
17:21:54 <alagalah> +1 dmm
17:22:22 <phrobb> #topic Creation Review Dynamic Resource Reservation
17:22:46 <cdub> some meetbot variants have #vote
17:25:49 <edwarnicke___> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Project_Proposals:Dynamic_Resource_Reservation
17:25:59 <dmm> cdub: #vote would be very useful
17:28:06 <alagalah> edwarnicke___: how is this different from GBP  or Affinity?
17:28:20 <edwarnicke___> alagalah: Ask on the call :)
17:30:19 <cdub> mlemay: yes, it's not very clear...a bit muffled
17:30:29 <dmm> underwater
17:30:49 <cdub> . o O (blurp)
17:33:06 <alagalah> cdub: lol
17:33:20 <alagalah> edwarnicke___: I think I get it, I can talk to him unicast another time
17:33:34 <edwarnicke___> alagalah: awesome :)
17:33:34 <alagalah> I can see differences... as soon as I saw TL1
17:35:53 <alagalah> +1
17:36:30 <alagalah> mlemay: lets chat about how this can work together with GBP
17:36:42 <regXboi> #info point made that GBP may already provide the northbound plugin for this project
17:37:52 <regXboi> what was that question again?
17:38:10 <RobDolin_> Would SNMP or other protocols work for SB
17:38:19 <dmm> regXboi would netconf or snmp be SBs?
17:38:22 <phrobb> Can other southbounds such as NETCONF and SNMP apply to this
17:38:26 <regXboi> #info question about what protocols would be used for SB
17:38:32 <regXboi> thanks, I wanted to get it scribed
17:39:12 <dmm> regXboi: ok?
17:39:26 <regXboi> #info answer there are multiple protocols that can be used
17:39:39 <regXboi> #info statement that those points should be added to the proposal
17:39:41 <RobDolin_> 'Good stuff regXboi.  Having been out-of-office for two weeks, having well-scribed minutes using #info, #agreed, etc. is really useful.
17:39:57 <regXboi> #info question about reuse of existing components (specific topology manager)
17:40:18 <regXboi> #info answer is that it is still be considered
17:41:42 <regXboi> #info slight digression about how to allow this project to interwork with topology manager
17:43:29 <RobDolin_> #info Question before the TSC is whether to move the Dynamic Resource Project to Incubation
17:43:46 <regXboi> #agreed dynamic resource project to incubation
17:43:51 <regXboi> :)
17:44:08 <phrobb> #topic Helium Release Schedule
17:44:12 <mlemay> thanks you all
17:44:13 <edwarnicke___> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Simultaneous_Release:Helium_Release_Plan
17:44:16 <RobDolin_> Congrats mlemay, phudgins, et. al. :)
17:44:33 <phudgins> now the fun begins
17:44:45 <mlemay> yes
17:45:20 <networkstatic> 72pt FOnt
17:45:28 <regXboi> sorry folks
17:45:58 <networkstatic> dude u r scribing regXboi you get whatever the hell u want
17:46:06 <networkstatic> record that
17:46:07 <networkstatic> :)
17:46:44 <regXboi> #info changes being highlighted: no later than M2 as part of the Gerrit/Jenkins merge process participating projects must push their binary artifacts to the Nexus repo.
17:47:04 <regXboi> #info No uses of System.out.println in non testcase code.
17:47:16 <regXboi> #info No dependencies on 3rd party (non-ODL) snapshot versions
17:48:02 <networkstatic> that confuses me
17:48:08 <networkstatic> we all depend on Jackson
17:48:30 <networkstatic> ahh
17:48:32 <networkstatic> rogr
17:49:12 <regXboi> #info aspirations and intentions added as "stretch goals"
17:49:32 <regXboi> somebody take over
17:49:35 <regXboi> I'm going to talk now
17:50:48 <RobDolin_> #info regXboi (Ryan Moats, IBM) expresses a concern with continuous documentation not being part of Helium
17:50:57 <networkstatic> u r fast rob
17:51:04 <RobDolin_> Thanks :)
17:51:05 <networkstatic> i was still on continous
17:51:07 <networkstatic> lol
17:51:11 <networkstatic> l33t
17:51:12 <phrobb> me too
17:51:15 <networkstatic> ha
17:51:22 <edwarnicke___> continuous continuity
17:51:25 <RobDolin_> I briefly worked on MSN / Windows Live Messenger :)
17:51:31 <networkstatic> lol
17:52:32 <RobDolin_> <- Raises hand
17:53:06 <RobDolin_> #info edwarnicke__ suggests that requiring continuous documentation for Helium will be a high bar
17:53:28 <RobDolin_> #info dmm (David Meyer, Brocade) expresses agreement with Ed
17:54:20 <RobDolin_> #info regXboi suggests if we're starting continuous integration in M3, we should also have continuous documentation
17:55:29 <cdub> i disagree
17:55:40 <cdub> we simply ask if folks can do it
17:55:44 <RobDolin_> #info regXboi asks: If this is an approved draft schedule, does this go into stone in such a way that we can't add continuous documentation in M3?
17:56:06 <phrobb> #info regXboi's happy question - is this release plan in stone, or can we mandate Continuous-docs later?  -  Answer from edwarnicke___ "no we can change the criteria mid-stream
17:57:15 <RobDolin_> #info EdWarnicke__ suggests we could move commencing user-facing documentation from M5 to M3
17:57:26 <networkstatic> staggering a code and document freeze would help i think.
17:57:38 <networkstatic> for next release
17:57:44 <networkstatic> give us a week
17:57:53 <networkstatic> last time it was a day
17:58:18 <cdub> s/User Facing//
17:59:53 <RobDolin_> Can we agree on moving starting user-facing documentation M5 -> M3 and move on?
18:01:03 <edwarnicke___> Call drop
18:01:05 <edwarnicke___> Rejoining
18:01:22 <alagalah> Split the difference and say M4 ?
18:02:29 <regXboi> sorry cdub - I wanted to be sure he caught things :)
18:02:39 <RobDolin_> #info cdub suggests that you can start documentation even if you haven't locked-down APIs
18:03:03 <networkstatic> good point, openstack
18:03:03 <regXboi> and I'm back to scribing again
18:03:12 <networkstatic> folow the openstack
18:03:24 <RobDolin_> <- passes pen back to regXboi ;)
18:03:29 <regXboi> thanks
18:03:40 <regXboi> I figure I've agitated enough for today :)
18:03:46 <regXboi> or at least *so far*
18:04:02 <cdub> regXboi: no problem, think we got it all
18:04:29 <regXboi> while I don't get a vote, I can live with how this is coming out :)
18:04:38 <phrobb> #info the Documentation Project may be able to provide recommendations to projects for docs to be produced
18:04:48 <networkstatic> +1
18:04:48 <regXboi> should that be an action?
18:04:53 <networkstatic> on docs project
18:05:19 <regXboi> #agreed moving doc start from M5->M3
18:05:27 * regXboi is happy
18:05:28 <phrobb> #action Documentation group to provide guidance to projects on documentation produced
18:06:17 <cdub> to be clear, nobody has ever proposed starting in the past
18:09:09 <phrobb> #info dmm suggests changing all TSC "musts" to "Commits to"
18:11:15 <regXboi> #info concern that having Lithium Plan finalized in M2 would lead to Lithium not having to implement continuous documentation
18:11:26 <regXboi> I *think* I got it :)
18:12:46 <regXboi> #info edwarnicke__ points out this is more general that just documentation, it may preclude including learnings from Helium
18:12:59 <RobDolin_> #info cdub suggests we could push-out the Litinum release plan to M4 or M5; and release planning cycles should be easier as we gain more xperience.
18:14:14 <regXboi> #info edwarnicke__ is worried about having the "bones" of lithium earlier in the process
18:14:40 <regXboi> #info so that new projects have an understanding of the sechedule sooner rather than later
18:18:13 <regXboi> not sure how to capture this discussion
18:18:40 <regXboi> #info discussion of how to schedule Lithium in a way that provides forward visibility to new projects
18:22:02 <cdub> "provisional" w/ date when we will end it
18:23:09 <regXboi> #info lenrow proposes putting out provisional schedules for Lithium (and maybe Berrylium)
18:23:21 <regXboi> #info which corresponds to cdub's proposal
18:23:44 <regXboi> #info colindixon points out that we have to get to an annual template
18:23:55 <phrobb> regXboi:  I think that was kwatsen, not lenrow
18:24:17 <regXboi> #info correction: proposal from kwatsen, not lenrow
18:24:30 <lenrow> almost got a free one
18:24:34 <regXboi> #info edwarnicke__ pushes back that he wants time for review and consideration
18:24:35 <phrobb> :-)
18:24:44 <edwarnicke___> #info and community discussion
18:24:53 <regXboi> thanks
18:25:17 <networkstatic> Dumb question, is this still debating what date to pick?
18:25:44 <alagalah> networkstatic: I don't think so, its more about Lithium
18:25:52 <alagalah> networkstatic: I think ...
18:25:54 * alagalah shrug
18:25:55 <networkstatic> but the concrete result
18:26:08 <networkstatic> is what date to pick for helium
18:26:21 <RobDolin_> @networkstatic, I think the debate is when to have the draft and locked schedules for Lithium release
18:26:21 <alagalah> networkstatic: I think Ed' s proposal for that got accepted
18:26:22 <regXboi> no, this is about how to get lithium
18:26:48 <networkstatic> got it, thanks.
18:27:04 <networkstatic> consistent cadence would be predictable right?
18:27:09 <RobDolin_> Maybe someone should call for orders of the day (i.e. Hey Mr. Chair, what is the topic being debated?)
18:27:09 <networkstatic> every 6 months
18:27:26 <networkstatic> lets just do what openstack does
18:27:35 <networkstatic> we got work to do boys
18:27:53 <RobDolin_> @NetworkStatic - I believe OpenStack took until Diablo to get to a stable six-month cadence
18:28:10 <networkstatic> good to know Rob.
18:28:57 <alagalah> networkstatic: I don't think we are debating 6 month time scales, i think its more about when do we do lock down for the time frame, ie a sashimi model
18:29:55 <RobDolin_> @NetworkStatic: FYI: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Releases
18:30:21 <networkstatic> lets stagger 3 months from openstack and call it a day
18:31:14 <networkstatic> serious too
18:31:25 <alagalah> networkstatic: speak up bro
18:31:25 <regXboi> #info regXboi asks if there is a proposal to put the helium and lithium and subsequent release schedules on the public page
18:31:47 <RobDolin_> #link http://www.opendaylight.org/resources/getting-started-guide is currently linked from www.opendaylight.org
18:31:59 <regXboi> #action we need to put links on the opendaylight page to the schedule, mailing lists and irc channel lists
18:32:30 <cdub> we already have them all there
18:32:32 <mrberner-mobile> What about the YouTube videos from the odl conference? Those were a good reference for me.
18:32:51 <colindixon> RobDolin_, cdub: huh that actually isn't half bad
18:33:14 * colindixon withdraws his criticisms
18:33:15 <lenrow> Finding wiki from .org is harder than it should be. Button on main page?
18:33:38 <colindixon> I think we we should merge http://www.opendaylight.org/developers/how-participate with that
18:33:48 <vijoy> engineers hate reading verbose text.. a list of the wiki, email lists etc would simplify life maybe
18:33:58 <cdub> it won't
18:34:02 <cdub> i 100% promise
18:34:09 <colindixon> :p
18:34:11 <cdub> engineers hate reading
18:34:15 <vijoy> :D
18:34:16 <networkstatic> hehe +1
18:34:19 <networkstatic> stupid words
18:34:31 <alagalah> I wordify bad
18:34:48 <networkstatic> prefers smoke signals
18:34:57 <alagalah> nah man, semaphore
18:35:04 <networkstatic> fancy
18:35:08 <RobDolin_> Words < bullets < table < picture
18:35:16 <networkstatic> Boom
18:35:17 <alagalah> grunts whistle and obscene hand gestures
18:35:45 <dmm> @Rob wc -c > $few --> tl;dr
18:36:02 <alagalah> dmm: +1
18:38:05 <networkstatic> haha dmm mad nerdiness
18:43:58 <regXboi> note: I've stopped scribing because I'm not entirely sure where we are coming out
18:44:58 <regXboi> folks - I need to run to another call - can somebody take over scribing?
18:46:08 <alagalah> Yeah I have to split too
18:46:22 <networkstatic> rogr regXboi
18:46:38 <regXboi> #info discussion of provisional dates for service releases
18:46:49 <networkstatic> i did tune out tho,
18:47:42 <regXboi> #chair colindixon
18:47:42 <odl_meetbot> Current chairs: colindixon phrobb regXboi
18:47:58 <regXboi> later folks
18:48:01 <networkstatic> sorry, i was gonna grab regXboi
18:48:04 <networkstatic> bye sir
18:48:28 <colindixon> #info cdub argues that he doesn't want to set the dates for stable releases, because things happen
18:48:52 <colindixon> #info edwarnicke___ wants to let developers plan vacations after releases w/o worrying about having to ship stable updates
18:49:58 <colindixon> #agree resolution is to set the dates as provisional and that they can be modified as needed, e.g., for critical bug fixes
18:51:43 <phrobb> #info colindixon is concerned how as a community we enforce these deadlines as we didn't do it well in Hydrogen
18:53:48 <colindixon> #info note that the TSC can let projects join after M1 (within reason) for extenuating circumstances, e.g., IPR review
18:54:47 <phrobb> #info edwarnicke___ notes that a project split into 2 projects may need until M3 to have their release plans created/updated.. ie Project A splits into B & C, B & C need to accomodate everything identified in the original project A
18:57:47 <alagalah> see ya guys
18:59:59 <dmm> @alagalah thanks for contributing/attending
19:00:12 <RobDolin_> #info cdub calls for a vote on the schedule
19:01:02 <phrobb> #info Vote to adopt the Full Release plan for Helium presented today
19:01:23 <RobDolin_> I think my call-in is muted, but I vote Aye as well.
19:01:24 <phrobb> #agree the Full Release Plan for Helium presented is approved
19:01:28 <colindixon> thanks
19:01:51 <colindixon> end of meeting, going once
19:01:56 <colindixon> going twice
19:01:59 <colindixon> gone
19:02:03 <colindixon> #endmeeting