16:59:10 #startmeeting tsc 16:59:10 Meeting started Thu Oct 9 16:59:10 2014 UTC. The chair is phrobb. Information about MeetBot at http://ci.openstack.org/meetbot.html. 16:59:10 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 16:59:10 The meeting name has been set to 'tsc' 16:59:28 #info dmm 16:59:28 #topic Roll Call - TSC members please #info in 16:59:47 #info regXboi is partially here 17:00:02 #chair dmm colindixon alagalah regXboi 17:00:02 Current chairs: alagalah colindixon dmm phrobb regXboi 17:00:10 #info colindixon 17:00:14 #info alagalah (Keith) as proxy for Ed Warnicke 17:00:27 #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/TSC:Main#Agenda agenda as usual 17:00:36 #info Chris Price 17:01:26 #info regXboi now here fully 17:01:30 #info Ivan Wood 17:01:47 * ChrisPriceAB someone broke the internet in Sweden... Trying to get on webex, scribe well. 17:02:05 #info Kent Watsen 17:02:16 ChrisPriceAB: maybe you need the internet allen key (see IKEA) 17:02:33 alagalah: seriously? 17:02:44 regXboi: It was there to be had 17:02:54 * ChrisPriceAB haha 17:03:01 alagalah: yeah, but I at least resisted the temptation 17:03:20 #info Lenrow 17:03:36 #info jmedved 17:05:02 #topic dmm’s thanks 17:05:16 #info dmm wants to say thank you to the community, TSC, linux foundation and everyone 17:05:34 dmm: You rock 17:05:49 +1000 17:06:03 @keith: my pleasure 17:06:34 dmm: Many thanks 17:06:49 @dlenrow: thank you 17:07:51 #topic Updates 17:08:18 tbachman: any chance you can scribe? 17:08:21 if you’re around? 17:08:23 sure! 17:08:26 chair? 17:08:29 * ChrisPriceAB acknowledge, can hear occasionally will not try to speak though... 17:08:29 #info phrobb Dusseldorf conf next week 17:08:34 #chair tbachman 17:08:34 Current chairs: alagalah colindixon dmm phrobb regXboi tbachman 17:08:35 #chair tbachman 17:08:35 Current chairs: alagalah colindixon dmm phrobb regXboi tbachman 17:08:40 * ChrisPriceAB still turning the ikea key 17:08:45 #info hackfest in Octoboer on 10/29 17:08:47 ChrisPriceAB: nice one 17:09:04 #info following week is openstack paris, with talks on ODL in the main conference and in the OpenSource ecosystem track 17:09:14 #link http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon-europe 17:09:27 #undo 17:09:27 Removing item from minutes: 17:09:46 #link http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon-europe Cloud Open + LinuxCon conference coming up 17:10:23 #link http://www.opendaylight.org/events/2014-10-29/opendaylight-tokyo-hackfest Tokyo ODL Hackfest 17:10:33 alagalah: thx! 17:10:39 tbachman: np 17:10:53 #info Youcef Laribi 17:11:07 #info Welcome to new TSC Chair Youcef Laribi, the new representative from Citrix 17:11:24 Welcome Youcef! 17:11:36 #topic Stable Helium Update 17:12:21 Thanks dlenrow 17:12:31 #info https://docs.google.com/a/linuxfoundation.org/spreadsheets/d/1PYxjiSYEks44uJByVO1P44rnI5xTJRulpKyrSsDQF9g/edit#gid=1307630876 17:12:37 #undo 17:12:37 Removing item from minutes: 17:12:47 #link https://docs.google.com/a/linuxfoundation.org/spreadsheets/d/1PYxjiSYEks44uJByVO1P44rnI5xTJRulpKyrSsDQF9g/edit#gid=1307630876 17:12:59 #info there are eight projects that are complete, with others waiting on dependencies 17:13:25 #info Most of the remaining projects are in steps 4, 5, or 6, with 8-9 of them that haven’t started yet 17:14:01 #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Simultaneous_Release:Cutting_Stability_Branches <= Link describing steps for cutting Helium Stability Branches 17:15:04 #info zxiiro says that the remaining projects that haven’t started are likely doing so because they think they can’t start yet b/c they are blocked on dependent projects 17:15:40 #info colindixon notes that the autorelease for stable/helium is about 1 month away, so we need to get the branches cut soon 17:16:35 #info LuisGomez asks why there are two projects in the spreadsheet with no contact 17:16:45 #info phrobb notes that opflex is an error because it wasn’t in helium 17:17:16 #action zxiiro will track down the contact for sbni 17:17:17 #info 8 projects completed, 7 projects in steps 4-6, 8 not started yet 17:17:36 We’re waiting on a pair of blocker issue for Karaf 3.0.2 - hoping to have those down stream fixes available in next few days, then it’ll take our standard 72 vote period to make an RC available. Should be available then for your next Controller release. 17:17:38 #action zxiiro to remove opflex from helium/stable spreadsheet and find "handler" for sdni project 17:17:47 phrobb: thx! 17:18:16 I realized that my action was bad — let me correct 17:18:18 #undo 17:18:18 Removing item from minutes: 17:18:19 #undo 17:18:19 Removing item from minutes: 17:18:20 #undo 17:18:20 Removing item from minutes: 17:18:29 #info 8 projects completed, 7 projects in steps 4-6, 8 not started yet 17:18:36 : #action zxiiro to remove opflex from helium/stable spreadsheet and find "handler" for sdni project 17:18:48 #action zxiiro to remove opflex from helium/stable spreadsheet and find "handler" for sdni project 17:19:01 (the previous action probably didn’t happen b/c of the leading colon) 17:19:32 #topic System Integration and Testing 17:20:26 #info LuisGomez says there are two new workgroups in Integration: Project Engagement to get requirements for testing from the beginning and work closely with release management; and Performance Tools, to focus just on creating performance tools 17:20:52 #info LuisGomez said that someone has asked about Windows testing, as there are possibly issues with the Windows karaf distribution 17:21:14 #info LuisGomez asks if someone from Microsoft could find someone to help out with Windows integration testing 17:21:31 #info The base Karaf windows distribution is tested prior to our releases, so issues found may be ODL specific 17:21:53 #info colindixon asks whether we can get a MAC and Windows machines/resources for the integration team for testing 17:21:56 icbts: thx! 17:22:35 tbachman: i have karaf builds on automated nightly jenkins builds on Windows 7 & 2012 server 17:22:44 #action IvanWood will try to find out more information about the issues with Windows 17:23:54 regXboi cries? 17:24:07 only quietly in the corner 17:24:11 #info colindixon asks if we’ve started testing on stable/helium yet 17:24:12 tears of joy at not being "the windows guy" any longer 17:24:19 #info LuisGomez says this hasn’t happened yet 17:24:21 regXboi: ;) 17:24:22 lol 17:24:42 #action IvanWood, LuisGomez, and phrobb to get together to build a plan for Windows testing in integration (test expertise, and actual hardware and OS platform). 17:25:56 #topic Committer Promotions on OVSDB 17:26:43 #info shague and flaviof have been nominated by the OVSDB team as committers 17:27:14 * ChrisPriceAB rapturous cheers 17:27:31 #info colindixon asks if there’s a precedent for requiring a committer during the TSC call for committers 17:27:41 #link https://lists.opendaylight.org/pipermail/ovsdb-dev/2014-October/000749.html 17:27:47 #undo 17:27:47 Removing item from minutes: 17:27:58 #info phrobb says he doesn’t think there’s such a precendent, but we have emails indicating +1’s from the OVSDB committers 17:27:59 #link https://lists.opendaylight.org/pipermail/ovsdb-dev/2014-October/000749.html email thread on new committers for OVSDB 17:28:26 * tbachman starts digging for spectrometer 17:28:35 #link http://spectrometer.opendaylight.org/?user_id=shague&metric=commits same hague on spectrometer 17:28:44 +1 17:28:46 ? 17:28:48 #link http://spectrometer.opendaylight.org/?user_id=ffernandes fLavio on spectrometer 17:28:56 #link http://spectrometer.opendaylight.org/?user_id=ffernandes Spectrometer for Flavio Fenandes 17:29:00 ugh 17:29:11 oh, I spelled it right :) 17:29:15 #undo 17:29:15 Removing item from minutes: 17:29:19 regXboi: thx 17:29:47 phrobb: you want to handle the startvote? 17:30:37 #info regXboi says that flaviof and shague are #3 and #6 on the contributors for OVSDB 17:31:23 #startvote Shall the TSC approve shague and flaviof as committers on the OVSDB project? -1, 0, +1 17:31:23 Begin voting on: Shall the TSC approve shague and flaviof as committers on the OVSDB project? Valid vote options are -1, 0, +1. 17:31:23 Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 17:31:32 #vote +1 17:31:33 #vote +1 17:31:34 #vote +1 17:31:35 #vote +1 17:31:40 #vote +1 17:31:41 #vote +1 17:31:43 #vote +1 17:31:47 #vote +1 17:31:50 colindixon: I think you got a bad character in front of that # 17:31:58 #vote +1 17:32:14 #endvote 17:32:14 Voted on "Shall the TSC approve shague and flaviof as committers on the OVSDB project?" Results are 17:32:14 +1 (8): regXboi, alagalah, ChrisPriceAB, dmm, kwatsen, colindixon, Youcef, IvanWood 17:32:17 #vote +1 17:32:19 Congrats flaviof shague 17:32:19 #vote +1 17:32:33 hear, hear! 17:32:44 #info flaviof and shague are promoted to committers on the OVSDB project 17:32:46 #agreed shague and flaviof are now committers on the OVSDB project 17:32:55 congrats flaviof and shague !!! 17:33:22 #topic Hydrogen End of Life 17:33:44 No 17:33:57 #info colindixon asks if we can just vote to end of life hydrogen today 17:34:27 #info dlenrow says that he has received little feedback about the need for sable hydrogen 17:34:27 #info IMHO you can't vote on EOL or EOS without defining the terms 17:34:56 #info regXboi says we should set some ground rules for End of Life and End of Support 17:35:18 #info regXboi would favor voting End of Support today, and focus on End of Life later 17:35:21 I am not sure we should be removing downloads ... 17:35:59 at worst they download links would be removed from the download page, but they'll stay in the Nexus release repository (where our download links point) 17:36:13 #info jmedved asks if we can define support, as that carries certain committments 17:36:22 #info colindixon says the proposal on the table is no more patches 17:36:51 #info regXboi says that in theory someone could file a defect against Hydrogen, and we as a community ought to consider cutting a new release to address the defect(s) 17:37:30 #info jmedved says that even if someone in the community pushes a patch, are we going to commit resources to that release (reviewing, testing, etc.) 17:37:55 #info rovarga says that whether or not to take patches should be up to the project 17:38:14 rovarga: So that would be outside of stable/hydrogen correct ??? 17:38:26 #info This means there are two issues: project life cycle, and support for the simultaneous release 17:38:33 So are we stating: 1) we will not intend to cut a new release of hydrogen. 2) we will lock the stable branches 3) will will remove the released downloads? (each of 1,2 3 have different meanings) 17:38:35 So perhaps the greater question is, will we ever have another stable/hydrogen ?? 17:38:49 alagalah: we never had one 17:38:50 * ChrisPriceAB sorry can't follow voice 17:39:40 ChrisPriceAB: my sense is #1 yes, #2 no, #3 no (under EoS) 17:39:45 phrobb: I’m sensing a vote topic ;) 17:39:46 lol 17:40:04 regXboi: Ok that would make the most sense to me 17:40:07 regXboi: +1 17:40:09 ChrisPriceAB: my sense is #1 yes, #2 no, #3 no, (remove links from download page) yes (under EoL) 17:40:22 my phone just died... 17:40:34 dmm: sorry :( 17:40:39 regXboi: So in essence if we agree to this, then we need to determine the timeframe with notification, yes ? 17:40:45 ok, now I know when the vote comes, thanks regXboi 17:41:15 * ChrisPriceAB vote! vote! vote! vote! (disruptive in the face of silence) 17:41:37 ChrisPriceAB: If you don't have audio, there is quite a bit of discussion about the structure of the vote predicate 17:41:41 dmm: welcome to my world! (still psinning the ikea key) 17:41:59 I will read the stated vote cerfully 17:42:21 #info proposal for vote: should the TSC declare EoS for Hydrogen (which means that there will be no more stable/hydrogen simultaneous releases), projects may continue to update stable branches, and stable/hydrogen will still be available for download 17:42:44 no more, or “no” ;) 17:42:59 * ChrisPriceAB don't be cheeky 17:43:00 lol 17:43:02 sorry 17:43:20 #info proposal for vote: should the TSC declare EoS for Hydrogen (which means that there will be no more stable/hydrogen simultaneous releases, projects may continue [but are not required] to update stable/hydrogen branches, and stable/hydrogen will still be available for download) 17:43:43 dmm and ChrisPriceAB does that sound right? 17:43:48 and we’ll vote 17:43:51 colindixon: thanks 17:43:52 That sounds highly logical 17:44:05 #startvote proposal for vote: should the TSC declare EoS for Hydrogen (which means that there will be no more stable/hydrogen simultaneous releases, projects may continue [but are not required] to update stable/hydrogen branches, and stable/hydrogen will still be available for download)? -1, 0, +1 17:44:05 Begin voting on: proposal for vote: should the TSC declare EoS for Hydrogen (which means that there will be no more stable/hydrogen simultaneous releases, projects may continue [but are not required] to update stable/hydrogen branches, and stable/hydrogen will still be available for download)? Valid vote options are -1, 0, +1. 17:44:05 Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 17:44:18 #vote +1 17:44:20 #vote +1 17:44:22 #vote +1 17:44:23 #vote +1 17:44:25 #vote +1 17:44:27 vote +1 17:44:31 #vote +1 17:44:32 #vote +1 17:44:44 #vote +1 17:44:49 #info alagalah notes that there are no current bugs outstanding against hydrogen 17:44:57 #vote +1 17:45:01 #endvote 17:45:01 Voted on "proposal for vote: should the TSC declare EoS for Hydrogen (which means that there will be no more stable/hydrogen simultaneous releases, projects may continue [but are not required] to update stable/hydrogen branches, and stable/hydrogen will still be available for download)?" Results are 17:45:01 +1 (9): dlenrow, jmedved, regXboi, Youcef, ChrisPriceAB, dmm, kwatsen, colindixon, alagalah 17:45:11 * ChrisPriceAB goodnight Hydrogen, you were much loved. 17:45:34 * ChrisPriceAB just putting it to sleep right ;) 17:45:45 #agreed EoS for Hydrogen (which means that there will be no more stable/hydrogen simultaneous releases, projects may continue [but are not required] to update stable/hydrogen branches, and stable/hydrogen will still be available for download) 17:45:55 hard lessons well learnt 17:46:00 #topic Longer TSC Meetings 17:46:19 #info phrobb says that at the end and beginning of cycles, there are usually a lot more topics 17:46:19 is learnt a word? Modern english? 17:46:21 dmm: we learned *so* much from Hydrogen, now we just need to make sure we actually apply those learnings 17:46:37 #info phrobb asks if we want to increase the meetings to 90 minutes or 2 hours over the next couple of months 17:46:37 * regXboi is happy to put that issue to rest (where is that shove and that wooden stakel) and look forward to lithium 17:46:40 yeah, I realized that too 17:47:01 it's an oregon thing 17:47:36 dmm: Its a real word for all intensive porpoises 17:47:42 #info regXboi proposes 3-4 weeks we increase, and then about 6 weeks before the Lithium release 17:47:43 :-) 17:47:45 * ChrisPriceAB is it just me or do the TSC calls feel different when Ed is on vacation? 17:47:56 Hi everyone by the way 17:48:04 Listening on the call, but staying quiet 17:48:06 ChrisPriceAB: no comment 17:48:13 * ChrisPriceAB alagalah don't insult my dolfin! 17:48:26 #info kwatsen says that it seemed like we needed extra time towards the end of Helium 17:48:27 dneary: We need someone to keep silent 17:48:42 dlenrow, That's what IRC is for 17:48:45 #info colindixon asks whether folks prefer 90 minutes or 2hrs? 17:48:49 colindixon: Only if we police the time limits on the agenda 17:49:11 #info regXboi prefers 2hrs for now 17:49:33 * tbachman will have bulk up his scribe fingers 17:49:35 * ChrisPriceAB colindixon: that depends what I'm doing... 17:49:42 alagalah: +1M 17:50:27 #info alagalah points out that if we schedule for 2 hrs we can go short, but if we schedule for 90 minutes then we have a harder time going longer 17:50:28 +1 good time management 17:50:34 #startvote Shall the TSC increase their weekly meetings to 2 hours while discussion topics warrant it? -1, 0, +1 17:50:34 Begin voting on: Shall the TSC increase their weekly meetings to 2 hours while discussion topics warrant it? Valid vote options are -1, 0, +1. 17:50:34 Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 17:50:40 #vote +1 17:50:41 #vote +1 17:50:43 #vote +1 17:50:48 #vote +1 17:50:50 #voyr +2 17:50:51 #vote +1 17:50:55 sighjt 17:50:57 #vote +1 17:50:59 #vote +1 17:51:08 #vote +1 17:51:10 colindixon, Thanks for the info on the meeting by the way. V interesting for me 17:51:15 (wow, that was hard) 17:51:21 dmm: is that some Nordic spelling of "sigh"? :) 17:51:24 #endvote 17:51:24 Voted on "Shall the TSC increase their weekly meetings to 2 hours while discussion topics warrant it?" Results are 17:51:24 +1 (8): dlenrow, jmedved, regXboi, ChrisPriceAB, dmm, kwatsen, colindixon, alagalah 17:51:24 * ChrisPriceAB makes me feel good when we finish early (did you hear that colindixon ?) 17:51:31 dmm, Does the TSC have +2 votes? 17:51:47 #agreed TSC meetings are now 2 hours 17:51:49 dneary: It has +2 typos 17:51:51 :) 17:51:53 special privelage for dmm 17:52:07 * ChrisPriceAB bad spelling for ChrisPriceAB 17:52:13 +1000 for _2 17:52:13 #action phrobb to change the TSC meeting invites to 2 hours 17:52:22 #topic debt reduction 17:52:27 I was gonna say ChrisPriceAB ... we needz a seshun on spellificashun 17:52:31 #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/File:Debt-reduction-ideas.TSC-meeting.2014.10.09.pptx slides with conrcrete suggestions/ides 17:52:43 alagalah: wot? 17:53:42 #info colindixon says a couple of people have proposed that we delay starting the Lithium release to perform concrete, time-boxed work on addressing the various debt on OpenDaylight 17:54:35 +1 first project in history to attack tech debt before too late 17:54:37 #info regXboi points out that cdub has some strong opinions on stopping work for Tech Debt so asks if topic can be deferred until he can have input 17:54:38 #info regXboi notes that cdub (who couldn’t be at today’s TSC due to business travel) had a strong opinion against delaying the start of Lithium, and we may want to wait for him to return before making any decision on this 17:54:45 #undo 17:54:46 Removing item from minutes: 17:54:48 um 17:54:48 alagalah: thx! 17:55:07 regXboi: Did I say it wrong ? 17:55:28 alagalah: nope... race condition between um and undo 17:55:33 when wouod we need to make a decision, by not establishing the SR program we are essentially delaying right? 17:55:55 ChrisPriceAB: SR ? 17:56:04 simultaneous release 17:56:09 #info colindixon notes that he doesn't want to delay the Lithiium Release schedule if we don't have concrete, time-boxed technical debt reduction items to deliver 17:56:34 ChrisPriceAB: Ah, got it, the Mx gates etc 17:56:40 yup 17:56:41 #info regXboi notes that with increased TSC time, we might be able to do this without delaying Lithium start 17:56:54 there is a draft litium simultaneous release plan out 17:56:56 How would we quantify the amount of time to slip without scoping the work? 17:57:03 #info there is a draft litium simultaneous release plan out 17:57:15 #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Simultaneous_Release:Lithium_Release_Plan 17:57:16 the posted release plan has disclaimers all over it 17:57:25 #undo 17:57:25 Removing item from minutes: 17:57:42 #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Simultaneous_Release:Lithium_Release_Plan draft Lithium Release Plan 17:57:43 a point in note. The TSC should likely vote for the approval of the release plan weeks in advance of the first deadline right? 17:58:34 colindixon: regXboi is trying to say something and I have an observation I want to make 18:00:01 #info kwatsen says we should re-label this to indicate that this isn’t the plan of record 18:00:13 #info dlenrow notes we need to address the dates as well 18:00:33 I think we need to also make the API/code/RC freezes 18:00:51 or rather reworking them 18:01:13 #info alagalah says that the release plan doesn’t address project dependencies 18:01:58 #info colindixon says that Hydrogen did have a concept of different release stages to address this 18:03:17 colindixon: I tried to edit... not sure if it went thru 18:03:40 #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Simultaneous_Release:Lithium_Release_Plan update page with red warning 18:03:41 alagalah: I got it 18:03:51 (I think) 18:03:52 we need feature freeze -> API freeze -> code freeze -> RCs 18:04:10 we do not have feature freeze, so features are rushed in before code freeze 18:04:33 The point I was specifically making is that if I am dependent on someone elses API, then waiting till M4 for that isn't very nice in terms of time left over 18:04:41 rovarga: ACK ACK ACK 18:04:46 rovarga: +1 18:05:15 rovarga: +1 18:05:23 Maybe I can say hi? 18:05:29 alagalah: yup... having alpha/beta quality APIs at feature freeze will make you happy, right? :) 18:05:33 #info discussion ensues on the needs for several improvements oto the Lithium Release Plan 18:05:57 * ChrisPriceAB all hail colindixon, well done and welcome to the job. ;) 18:06:07 #info colindixon requests that folks add requests/ideas to the bottom of the Lithium Release Plan 18:06:09 colindixon, Thanks 18:06:17 agreed, nice job Colin 18:06:37 #topic Introduction of Dave Neary 18:07:12 #info dneary will be spending ~25% of his time working with phrobb, neelajaques, et. al. on how to grow a healthy a community 18:07:30 #info Dave is reachable at dneary@redhat.com, dneary on IRC 18:07:45 #endmeeting