17:02:24 <colindixon> #startmeeting tsc
17:02:24 <odl_meetbot> Meeting started Thu Oct 16 17:02:24 2014 UTC.  The chair is colindixon. Information about MeetBot at http://ci.openstack.org/meetbot.html.
17:02:24 <odl_meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
17:02:24 <odl_meetbot> The meeting name has been set to 'tsc'
17:02:30 <colindixon> #topic roll call/agenda bashing
17:02:33 <alagalah> #info alagalah (Keith) proxy for Ed Warnicke
17:02:42 * tbachman has flakey wifi in hotel, but is more than happy to help scribing
17:02:43 <dmm> #info dmm
17:02:46 <alagalah> I'll be AFK for 15min
17:02:47 <jmedved> #info jmedved
17:02:47 <colindixon> #chair alagalah tbachman ChrisPriceAB
17:02:47 <odl_meetbot> Current chairs: ChrisPriceAB alagalah colindixon tbachman
17:02:50 <Youcef> #info Youcef Laribi
17:02:52 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Chris Price
17:02:56 <colindixon> #info colindixon
17:03:01 <kwatsen> #info Kent Watsen
17:03:02 <regXboi> #info regXboi
17:03:09 * regXboi says "moo"
17:03:15 <colindixon> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/TSC:Main#Agenda the agenda as usual
17:03:24 <abhijitkumbhare> same as tbachman - flakey wifi at the hotel
17:03:41 <colindixon> #info jmedved asks for sonar to be added to the agenda
17:04:13 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks if there are any Microsoft reps around to cover last week’s action item
17:04:30 <tbachman> #info colindixon says there are 3 action items held over from last week
17:04:41 <tbachman> #info phrobb changing meeting to 2 hrs (done)
17:04:56 <tbachman> #info zxiiro to remove OpFlex from Helium projects list (done)
17:05:29 <tbachman> #action testing of Helium on windows still assigned to LuisGomez phrobb and IvanWood
17:05:45 * ChrisPriceAB thanks was about to scribe but wasn't sure
17:06:20 <tbachman> #info LuisGomez says that he doesn’t think there’s a problem with running on windows (with karaf help from icbts)
17:06:22 * regXboi offers three cheers for having windows folks involved with integration
17:06:34 <dlenrow> #info Dave Lenrow
17:06:58 <tbachman> #info LuisGomez  says they’re working with LF to get more VMs for RackSpace for testing
17:07:21 <ChrisPriceAB> #info jmedved points out Mac testing has also been requested
17:07:50 <tbachman> #topic Updates
17:09:06 <tbachman> #info phrobb says there’s an application that he needs folks to sign to be a committer member, which is an extra process step
17:09:33 <tbachman> #info phrobb says there’s also a nomination committee for this
17:09:58 <tbachman> #info phrobb says there are two folks who’ve already self-nominated
17:10:38 <colindixon> #info just to note, the nomination committee is just to formally bless the self-nominations in the normal process
17:10:43 <tbachman> colindixon: thx ! :)
17:10:48 <tbachman> (beat me to it)
17:11:25 <tbachman> #info voters have to fill out the committer member form in order to be able to vote for the Committer Board election.
17:11:44 <tbachman> #info phrobb says that ChrisPriceAB ran a very successful HackFest on Monday
17:11:56 <tbachman> #info phrobb says the ODL mini-summit was very well attended on Tuesday
17:12:10 <dlenrow> ~160 folks at ODL mini-summit Dusseldorf
17:12:15 <tbachman> #info phrobb says that pretty much all the booths are showing ODL in their booths
17:12:28 <tbachman> #info ~160 attendees at the ODL mini-summit in Dusseldorf
17:12:41 <tbachman> #info next event is mini-summit in Tokyo
17:13:21 * tbachman goes to find link
17:13:51 <colindixon> #link http://www.opendaylight.org/news/events
17:14:08 <tbachman> #topic Stable Helium
17:14:23 <tbachman> #info gzhao says that all the projects have been moved to stable/helium except defense4all
17:14:34 <tbachman> #info defense4all will do this after their holiday
17:14:56 <tbachman> #info auto-build scripts have been modified to give defense4all special treatment, and auto-release is back to daily builds
17:15:46 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks if integration has cut yet b/c of dependency on defense4all
17:15:59 <tbachman> #info LuisGomez says that there’s no dependency/blocker there
17:16:27 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks if the master branches have all been bumped on the projects to get ready for Li release
17:16:35 <tbachman> #action gzhao to check on master branch version bumps
17:17:12 <tbachman> #info LuisGomez reports that the community needs to decide what to do with the legacy distributions
17:17:25 <tbachman> #info colindixon says he believes this falls under the purview of the TSC
17:18:31 <tbachman> #info rovarga says that we haven’t announced yet that we’re removing the build artifacts, so we should probably make an announcement to the mailing lists with some grace period before removing them.
17:19:14 * tbachman wonders if odl_meetbot has a topic stack for push/pop
17:19:28 <tbachman> #topic Committer Nominations
17:19:38 <alagalah> tbachman: it does....
17:19:53 <alagalah> tbachman: its called "tbachman: #-undo"
17:19:54 <alagalah> :)
17:19:57 <tbachman> ll
17:19:59 <tbachman> lol
17:20:08 <tykeal> but it only works if you're a chair ;)
17:20:13 <tbachman> #link https://lists.opendaylight.org/pipermail/bgpcep-dev/2014-October/000121.html email for committer nomination of milos fabian on bgpcep
17:21:07 <colindixon> http://spectrometer.opendaylight.org/?module=bgpcep&metric=loc
17:21:10 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks if there’s a different name that he commits under
17:21:37 <tbachman> #link http://spectrometer.opendaylight.org/?module=bgpcep&metric=loc spectrometer fro bgpcep
17:21:50 <phrobb> •	#startvote Shall the TSC approve the promotion of Milos Fabian on the bgpcep project? -1, 0, +1
17:21:57 <tykeal> that didn't work
17:22:01 <tbachman> phrobb: looks like you had a leading bullet
17:22:06 <phrobb> #startvote Shall the TSC approve the promotion of Milos Fabian on the bgpcep project? -1, 0, +1
17:22:06 <odl_meetbot> Only the meeting chair may start a vote.
17:22:13 <colindixon> #chair phrobb
17:22:13 <odl_meetbot> Current chairs: ChrisPriceAB alagalah colindixon phrobb tbachman
17:22:22 <phrobb> #startvote Shall the TSC approve the promotion of Milos Fabian on the bgpcep project? -1, 0, +1
17:22:22 <odl_meetbot> Begin voting on: Shall the TSC approve the promotion of Milos Fabian on the bgpcep project? Valid vote options are -1, 0, +1.
17:22:22 <odl_meetbot> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
17:22:24 <jmedved> #vote +1
17:22:26 <dlenrow> #vote +1
17:22:27 <dmm> #vote +1
17:22:28 <regXboi> #vote +1
17:22:28 <alagalah> #vote +1
17:22:28 <ChrisPriceAB> #vote +1
17:22:30 <kwatsen> #vote +1
17:22:30 <colindixon> #vote +1
17:22:44 <phrobb> #endvote
17:22:44 <odl_meetbot> Voted on "Shall the TSC approve the promotion of Milos Fabian on the bgpcep project?" Results are
17:22:44 <odl_meetbot> +1 (8): dlenrow, jmedved, regXboi, ChrisPriceAB, dmm, kwatsen, colindixon, alagalah
17:22:47 * ChrisPriceAB congrats!
17:23:01 <tbachman> congrats Milos!
17:23:03 <mohnish> congrats
17:23:14 <tbachman> #topic Sonar Issues
17:23:16 <dlenrow> ChrisPriceAB: You guys in a room at Swisshotel?
17:23:18 <phrobb> #agreed Milos Fabian is promoted to Committer on the BGPCEP project
17:23:33 <ChrisPriceAB> #topic Sonar
17:23:40 <tbachman> #info jmedved says that sonar is not properly picking up the stats on the controller project
17:24:05 <phrobb> dlenrow:  no we are at the Holiday Inn
17:24:07 <tbachman> #info jmedved says that escalation hasn’t resulted in this getting fixed yet
17:24:11 <ChrisPriceAB> #info and requires some fixing
17:24:19 <dlenrow> phrobb: OK Thx. Going out later?
17:24:37 <tbachman> #info colindixon says that we need someone who understands the controller project and LF IT (tykeal or zxiiro) to work this out
17:25:59 <tbachman> #info tykeal says we get timeout issues b/c the controller is so large, so we had to increased the timeout
17:26:06 <tbachman> #info tykeal says it might also be going over the heap size
17:26:24 <tbachman> #info tykeal the timeout and heap sizes have grown so much that he’s not even sure we can run it through sonar any more
17:27:21 <ChrisPriceAB> #info jmedved indicates that adjusting the controller project may be the required approach to solving the issues
17:27:32 <tbachman> ChrisPriceAB: thx!
17:28:10 <tbachman> #action tykeal and ttkacik to work out what the next steps are to resolve this
17:28:10 <ChrisPriceAB> #info colindixon indicates this should be discussed in the lists and on IRC and the results of those discussions brought back to the TSC for information or decision
17:28:29 * ChrisPriceAB ;)
17:28:32 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks that jmedved, tykeal, and ttkacik  all reach out to him if there are any problems
17:28:42 <tbachman> #topic hydrogen/helium release distributions
17:28:53 <phrobb> #action tykeal, zxiiro, and Tony T. to work off line on the Controller sonar issue
17:29:17 <tbachman> #info LuisGomez noted that we still have the hydrogen artifacts built as part of helium b/c no one has bothered to remove them
17:29:43 <tbachman> #info regXboi says that if we’re talking about removing the jobs from integration, that’s one thing, but if we’re removing the artifacts from nexus, that’s another thing
17:30:03 * ChrisPriceAB damn! you're fast!
17:30:10 <rovarga> I don't think pruning nexus should be on the table
17:30:15 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks if we can stop building the projects as part of the integration project
17:30:50 <rovarga> prune jenkins and git, but keep nexus as is
17:30:54 <ChrisPriceAB> I think that is the right approach.
17:31:05 <tbachman> #info regXboi says that we agreed last week that we’d end of support for Hydrogen
17:31:43 <tbachman> #info rovarga says we should announce that we’re going to remove the release artifacts and provide a grace period before they are removed
17:32:14 <tbachman> #info question as to how this will work — will things be discontinued at the project level, release level, both?
17:33:31 <tykeal> thought it was 18 months of inactivity
17:35:33 <tykeal> integration/distributions/{base,serviceprovider,virtualization}
17:35:45 <dbainbri> why remove the code?
17:36:46 <tbachman> #info dbainbri asks why should we remove the code from the Helium release
17:37:12 <tbachman> #info LuisGomez says that these builds are still available in the hydrogen source tree, so it doesn’t make sense ot keep building it as part of the Helium release
17:38:30 <rovarga> I think we should be pruning dead code
17:38:34 <hideyuki> LuisGomez: +1
17:38:44 <rovarga> it becomes source of confusion
17:38:46 <phrobb> #startvote Shall the TSC allow the integration project to remove the code in the integration repositories to build the Hydrogen distributions as part of the master branch?  Nothing will be removed from Nexus? -1, 0, +1
17:38:46 <odl_meetbot> Begin voting on: Shall the TSC allow the integration project to remove the code in the integration repositories to build the Hydrogen distributions as part of the master branch?  Nothing will be removed from Nexus? Valid vote options are -1, 0, +1.
17:38:46 <odl_meetbot> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
17:39:04 <ChrisPriceAB> #vote +1
17:39:04 <regXboi> #vote +1
17:39:06 <dlenrow> #vote +1
17:39:07 <colindixon> #vote +1
17:39:08 <dmm> #vote +1
17:39:13 <Youcef> #vote +1
17:39:57 <phrobb> #endvote
17:39:57 <odl_meetbot> Voted on "Shall the TSC allow the integration project to remove the code in the integration repositories to build the Hydrogen distributions as part of the master branch?  Nothing will be removed from Nexus?" Results are
17:39:57 <odl_meetbot> +1 (6): dlenrow, regXboi, dmm, ChrisPriceAB, colindixon, Youcef
17:40:48 <phrobb> #info the Integration project is urged to send a "warning" email at least 30 days before the above referenced code is removed
17:41:33 * tbachman missed that last bit that colindixon said
17:42:14 <tbachman> #action LuisGomez to coordinate with dbainbri and shague about also removing the docker and rpm images from Helium since they’re only related to Hydrogen
17:42:33 <tbachman> #topic DELL is new platinum member
17:42:41 <dmm> welcome Dell and Monish (sp?)
17:42:43 <tbachman> #info mohnish is the new representative from DELL
17:42:52 <abhijitkumbhare> Welcome Mohnish!
17:43:10 <icbts> Welcome Mohnish (and Dell)!
17:43:18 <mohnish> thanks
17:44:22 <tbachman> #topic Lithium schedule and timeline + Debt Reduction
17:44:42 <tbachman> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/File:Debt-reduction-ideas.TSC-meeting.2014.10.09.pptx link to power point on debt-reduction ideas
17:45:16 <alagalah> colindixon: Lessons learned is on the TWS agenda for coming Monday
17:45:45 <tbachman> #link https://lists.opendaylight.org/pipermail/tsc/2014-September/001777.html email describing Li timeline
17:46:00 <dlenrow> It will only get harder and more expensive to pay down tech debt
17:46:04 <tbachman> #info regXboi asks if there are TSC members who have not already expressed their opinions on this
17:46:32 <rovarga> dlenrow: tech debt should be addressed as a ramp-down of a release, really
17:46:45 <tbachman> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Simultaneous_Release:Lithium_Release_Plan#Lessons_from_Hydrogen.2FHelium_that_Should_be_Applied wiki page archiving lessions that should be learned from Hydrogen/Helium
17:46:52 <rovarga> if we are going to start paying off debt, we need to make sure our infra catches up
17:47:00 <rovarga> (versioning, autobuild)
17:47:25 * ChrisPriceAB How was my Ed impression?
17:47:33 * regXboi says "not bad"
17:47:36 * tbachman missed the gist of ChrisPriceAB’s message — can anyone #info that?
17:47:39 * ChrisPriceAB :D
17:47:39 <dlenrow> rovasrga: goood point,. Infra oversub isn't strictly tech debt but is a major drag on our productivity
17:47:49 * ChrisPriceAB I will
17:48:00 <tbachman> ChrisPriceAB: thx!
17:48:30 <ChrisPriceAB> #info ChrisPriceAB states that as the TSC has not yet voted on the decision to begin the simultaneous release, we have room now to address our technical debt in handling releases.
17:48:37 <tbachman> #info jmedved points out there are some projects that may not have any dependencies on such technical debt, and therefore should be able to proceed
17:48:44 <tbachman> ChrisPriceAB: thx — will get that next time :)
17:49:01 * ChrisPriceAB bu what is stopping project from starting? release plans are orthogonal
17:49:04 <rovarga> I think the TSC needs to define a time-table for producing the release plan
17:49:19 <rovarga> and execute on it relentlessly
17:50:12 <tbachman> #info regXboi says that we could work on the release, while paying down the debt can happen at the same time
17:50:35 <tbachman> #undo
17:50:35 <odl_meetbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0x272ea50>
17:50:57 <tbachman> #info regXboi says that we could work on the Lithium release plan, while paying down the debt can happen at the same time
17:51:28 <tbachman> can someone scribe for the next 2 mins?
17:51:48 <colindixon> ChrisPriceAB?
17:53:20 <tbachman> sorry folks — back now
17:53:21 <tbachman> thx
17:53:34 * ChrisPriceAB also sorry had a call of nature
17:53:38 <tbachman> lol
17:53:48 * ChrisPriceAB ;D
17:53:49 * tbachman wonders why ChrisPriceAB said “also”
17:53:50 <tbachman> lol
17:54:08 * ChrisPriceAB you were sorry first, didn't want to steal your thunder!
17:54:20 <tbachman> lol
17:54:51 * ChrisPriceAB oops gotta scribe something too...
17:55:35 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks if we should have someone email all of the projects to provide their various debt items, so that we can prioritize the list?
17:55:36 <ChrisPriceAB> #info colindixon identifies that cross project debt is the key focus area for the TSC.  project specific information should handled therein
17:56:26 <tbachman> #info Monday’s TWS call is dedicated to prioritize lessons learned from Helium and could also address technical debt
17:57:02 * tbachman wonders how many forms of debt there are out there
17:57:14 <abhijitkumbhare> Just an Fyi: this Monday I will not be present for the TWS (travelling).
17:57:26 <tbachman> #action gzhao to email projects to request their technical debt
17:58:06 * ChrisPriceAB debt collector?
17:58:14 <tbachman> colindixon: FYI, I’ve added the links you had in the agenda above
17:58:41 <abhijitkumbhare> ChrisPriceAB - there are debt collectors & some deadbeats :)
17:59:06 <tykeal> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Project_Proposals:Release_Engineering_-_Builder
17:59:16 <dfarrell07> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Tech_Work_Stream:Main#Upcoming_Meeting_Agendas
17:59:22 <tbachman> #undo
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17:59:24 <tbachman> #undo
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17:59:26 <tbachman> need titles
17:59:28 <tbachman> adding
17:59:33 <tbachman> (but thanks for links folks!)
17:59:35 <gzhao> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Simultaneous_Release:Lithium_Release_Plan#Lessons_from_Hydrogen.2FHelium_that_Should_be_Applied
17:59:49 <tbachman> #undo
17:59:49 <odl_meetbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x2849a90>
18:00:03 <tbachman> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Tech_Work_Stream:Main#Upcoming_Meeting_Agendas Upcoming TWS meeting on lessons learned
18:00:22 <tbachman> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Simultaneous_Release:Lithium_Release_Plan#Lessons_from_Hydrogen.2FHelium_that_Should_be_Applied wiki page describing lessons learned from Helium/Hydrogen
18:00:59 <alagalah> colindixon: It may also make sense to have people put their names next to the items they added to lessons learned in case there are questions
18:01:00 <tbachman> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Project_Proposals:Release_Engineering_-_Builder Release engineering builder proposal wiki page
18:01:12 <tbachman> tykeal: dfarrell07  gzhao thx!
18:01:48 <dfarrell07> tbachman: Thanks for cleaning up our messy #links ;)
18:02:06 <tbachman> dfarrell07: np — just helpful to have context next to the link
18:02:14 * tbachman learned from colindixon :)
18:02:59 <alagalah> colindixon: Here is a link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tOcLOrcab3tlYiIkewQ9dIxTDTcQaGFWmTQZ5kkMNuI/edit?usp=sharing
18:03:12 <alagalah> colindixon: We could use that for a working doc
18:03:14 <dmm> is enjoying not talking
18:03:40 <tbachman> #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tOcLOrcab3tlYiIkewQ9dIxTDTcQaGFWmTQZ5kkMNuI/edit?usp=sharing Google doc/spreadsheet containing lessons learned (itemized)
18:03:44 <tbachman> alagalah: thx!
18:05:09 <rovarga> regXboi: this list assumes heavily that we will not switch to continuous delivery
18:05:23 <regXboi> rovarga: that's a very good point
18:06:25 <tbachman> #info colindixon says there’s a discussion that’s been on the ML as to whether we should have a continuous delivery model
18:08:02 <tbachman> #info colindixon wonders if we should prove this first in a smaller scale (i.e. single project?)
18:08:21 <rovarga> #link https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/CrossProject:HouseKeeping_Best_Practices_Group:Main has been left pretty much untouched since HJydrogen release and lists the most painful problems we have
18:08:57 <tbachman> rovarga: thx for the link!
18:10:07 <tbachman> #info rovarga says that we need 3 participating projects: odlparent, yangtools, and some downstream project from yangtools other than controller (b/c of its size)
18:10:46 <tbachman> #info rovarga asks if there’s a downstream project from yangtools that’s not dependent on controller
18:11:32 <tbachman> #action rovarga to pursue trying to find a project that’s downstream from yangtools and not dependent on controller to prove the continuous release process
18:11:45 <dlenrow> Where are we on the concept of refactoring controller into discrete smaller projects? Is this Lithium? Is this tech debt?
18:11:55 <colindixon> dlenrow: good point
18:12:15 <tbachman> #info rovarga says that there’s still the version promotion issue/question
18:13:52 <tbachman> #info dlenrow asks where are we on the concept of refactoring controller into discrete smaller projects? Is this Lithium? Is this tech debt?
18:14:02 <rovarga> dlenrow: we are trying to lay out a strategy, unfortunately ... continous delivery would make that job a *lot* easier
18:14:38 <tbachman> #action colindixon and phrobb to produce a strawman release plan for Lithium for next week
18:14:48 <rovarga> so before actually breaking it up, internal house-keeping along the lines of my versioning proposal will go a long way towards understanding its structure and how it can be broken up
18:15:17 <ChrisPriceAB> #topic controller refactoring
18:15:55 <alagalah> I agree
18:16:02 <tbachman> #info dmm points out that edwarnicke should probably be present for such a discussion
18:16:04 * ChrisPriceAB +1
18:16:25 <ChrisPriceAB> #unfo regxboi would argue!
18:16:31 <regXboi> unfo?
18:16:40 <ChrisPriceAB> didn't want it to show up :D
18:16:52 <regXboi> nice
18:17:17 * ChrisPriceAB I think it is good to share information
18:17:28 <tbachman> #info rovarga says that some of the action items were agreed on at the design summit
18:17:55 <tbachman> #info there is some pruning we can do right now — all the OF stuff into openflowplugin, etc. — devinavery may have this list (?)
18:18:16 <colindixon> I agree that certainly Ed would need to be here to make decisions, but I feel like a readout on where we stand from rovarga is likely useful regardless
18:18:53 <tbachman> #info rovarga says we could probably start executing on the ideas that we agreed to in the design summit, and save the rest of the discussion until edwarnicke returns
18:19:17 <dlenrow> Another potential topic: "Does it make sense to exclude "leaf projects" ( those with no dependents) from SR to reduce complexity of  convergence? This is also moot if we get all the way to full CI.
18:19:40 <tbachman> #info colindixon says there another proposal not to break it up, but to at least divide it into logical groups
18:21:39 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks if we can have a list on the wiki to have the logical sub-components to try to figure out which bundles go into which place (i.e. an exercise in documentation)
18:21:57 <phrobb> #action rovarga to provide a prelim list of the logical sub-components and document what bundles would go into what sub-component
18:22:15 <tbachman> phrobb: pulling out the lb-action! :)
18:22:30 <rovarga> phrobb: thanks :)
18:22:33 <tbachman> lol
18:23:00 * regXboi notes we need to be careful about establishing rough consensus :)
18:23:01 <rovarga> #info preliminary candidates are opendaylight/netconf, opendaylight/config :)
18:23:23 <tbachman> #info colindixon says that in our bylaws, project leads are mentioned, as well as their responsibilities
18:23:28 <tbachman> #undo
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18:23:29 <colindixon> #undo
18:23:29 <odl_meetbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0x2847e10>
18:23:34 <colindixon> http://www.opendaylight.org/project/tsc/charter
18:23:34 <tbachman> #topic project leads
18:23:52 <tbachman> #info preliminary candidates are opendaylight/netconf, opendaylight/config
18:24:04 <tbachman> : #info colindixon says that in our bylaws, project leads are mentioned, as well as their responsibilities
18:24:22 <tbachman> #link http://www.opendaylight.org/project/tsc/charter TSC charter, which includes description on project leads and their responsibilities
18:25:20 <rovarga> it seems project leaders need to emerge, rather than being brought upfront
18:26:21 <tbachman> #info ChrisPriceAB says that we can ask for a project lead at the start of the project, but we shouldn’t demand to much from them until they participate in the simultaneous release
18:26:34 <tbachman> #info rovarga says that project leaders need to emerge, rather than being brought upfront
18:27:01 <tbachman> #info colindixon says maybe we just make this a requirement for participation in the simultaneous release
18:27:05 <rovarga> err... I think that is not really good requirement
18:27:07 <ChrisPriceAB> vote +1
18:27:56 <tbachman> #info rovarga says that committer quorom can be sufficient until a leader emerges
18:28:12 <tbachman> #info colindixon says that would require a change in the current charter
18:29:05 <tbachman> #info dlenrow asks if the project lead has any special privileges or status, or are they truly just a contact for the project
18:29:22 <rovarga> I am not sure what the leader lifecycle is :)
18:29:53 <alagalah> colindixon: how can the project lead change ?
18:29:56 <tbachman> #info colindixon says there are 3 things: if a project becomes core, the lead becomes a member of the TSC; they are supposed to be a “single throat to choke”; and the project lead is the only one approved to remove committers from a project
18:30:20 <tbachman> #info alagalah asks how can/do projects change their project lead
18:30:42 <tbachman> #info phrobb says we end up with defacto leads by having project contacts
18:30:47 <rovarga> I will note that the hunting down people is part of managing a release. I do not think we have an RM ...
18:30:48 <colindixon> tbachman: they are elected by the committers
18:31:02 <colindixon> of that project
18:31:11 <tbachman> #info colindixon says that project leads are elected by the committers of that project
18:32:15 <tbachman> #info colindixon says that condorcet voting should take place by the committers of the project to elect the project lead
18:32:23 <tbachman> #info phrobb notes that projects get to decide when they want to have their elections
18:33:44 <phrobb> #startvote Shall the TSC mandate Project Leads be identified for each project to participate in a simultaneous release? -1, 0, +1
18:33:44 <odl_meetbot> Begin voting on: Shall the TSC mandate Project Leads be identified for each project to participate in a simultaneous release? Valid vote options are -1, 0, +1.
18:33:44 <odl_meetbot> Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
18:34:01 <regXboi> #vote +1
18:34:04 <dmm> #vote +1
18:34:05 <colindixon> #vote +1
18:34:06 <jmedved> #vote +1
18:34:06 <dlenrow> #vote +1
18:34:07 <Youcef> #vote +1
18:34:13 <kwatsen> #vote +1
18:34:14 <ChrisPriceAB> #vote +1
18:34:33 <alagalah> #vote +1
18:34:37 <phrobb> #endvote
18:34:37 <odl_meetbot> Voted on "Shall the TSC mandate Project Leads be identified for each project to participate in a simultaneous release?" Results are
18:34:37 <odl_meetbot> +1 (9): dlenrow, jmedved, regXboi, alagalah, dmm, ChrisPriceAB, kwatsen, colindixon, Youcef
18:34:37 * tbachman notes we had an earlier vote with 6 :(
18:34:51 <hideyuki> Must a project lead for a project be a commiter of the project? Or can a not-committer person of a project become to the project lead of the project?
18:35:06 <alagalah> Sorry I got interrupted
18:35:11 <alagalah> How can I vote now ?
18:35:27 <alagalah> colindixon: +1
18:35:49 <regXboi> alagalah: when the vote is going #vote
18:36:05 <alagalah> regXboi: Yes but there isn't a vote open now so #vote is pointless
18:36:09 * regXboi notes colindixon needs to adjust his world view (again)
18:36:18 <alagalah> regXboi: I put that in before there was talk of any re-vote
18:36:28 <regXboi> alagalah: :)
18:36:28 <tbachman> regXboi: in this instance, the world is actually getting bigger ;)
18:36:44 <jmedved> #info jmedved votes +1 on allowing the integration project to remove the code in the integration repositories to build the Hydrogen distributions as part of the master branch
18:37:34 <tbachman> #info alagalah votes +1 on allowing the integration project to remove the code in the integration repositories to build the Hydrogen distributions as part of the master branch
18:38:01 <alagalah> colindixon: TWS lessons learned?
18:38:02 * tbachman is moving too slowly to keep up wtih colindixon :o
18:38:23 <colindixon> alagalah: yes
18:38:35 <phrobb> #action TSC members please read Lithium Rel Plans and provide comments to colindixon and phrobb.  Also please identify tech debt and document that on the wiki.
18:39:11 <tbachman> #info dlenrow asks if it make sense to exclude "leaf projects" ( those with no dependents) from SR to reduce complexity of  convergence? This is also moot if we get all the way to full CI.
18:39:58 <tbachman> #info colindixon says there are 3 notiions of maturity for a project
18:40:26 <tbachman> lol
18:40:36 <tbachman> can’t keep up
18:40:51 <tbachman> #info one is the project’s stage in the life cycle (e.g. core)
18:41:01 <phrobb> #info colindixon notes we have 3 indicators of maturity - 1 project lifecycle, 2 how dependent a project is, 3 how vibrant a given project is, and responsive to requests, 4) code maturity.
18:41:11 <tbachman> phrobb: thx bunches :)
18:41:14 * tykeal thinks colindixon might have auctioneer or debate training ;)
18:41:22 * tbachman agrees
18:41:26 <tbachman> moving us to warp drive
18:41:28 <tbachman> :)
18:42:31 <tykeal> lol
18:42:43 * tbachman thinks colindixon is entitled to speak at his natural speed
18:42:47 * tbachman cracks his fingers
18:42:53 <phrobb> yes
18:43:23 <tbachman> #action phrobb to produce a complete list of our governing documents
18:44:17 <tbachman> #info colindixon asks that folks please review the release engineering project
18:44:21 <phrobb> #endmeeting