18:06:21 #startmeeting tws 18:06:21 Meeting started Mon Dec 11 18:06:21 2017 UTC. The chair is CaseyODL. Information about MeetBot at http://ci.openstack.org/meetbot.html. 18:06:21 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 18:06:21 The meeting name has been set to 'tws' 18:06:40 vishnoianil is joining in 5 min 18:07:16 #topic Groups.io 18:07:16 #topic Groups.io migration 18:07:19 #info Brady Johnson 18:08:08 CaseyODL: do we need to be chair to info in things? 18:09:20 #info Groups.io has many of the features of Mailman, but a modern interface, better security and extra features 18:10:06 #info extra features include muting threads, integrations with many popular services 18:11:48 #info Groups.io was tested with ODPi, tested with email in China, with Exchange and Apple clients, with email from different geographical regions 18:12:30 #info it would be interesting to have less mailing lists, using the features of Groups.io 18:12:52 #info one such list would be a general support mailing list 18:13:39 #info vorburger suggests to have two support lists: one user support and one dev support list 18:14:42 #info CaseyODL ask how do we direct unexperienced users to the right list 18:15:37 #info CaseyODL also suggests to obsolete project specific mailing lists in favor of topics/hashtags on a general list 18:16:33 #info dfarrell07 says that in OPNFV they use tagging in the subject line, and that has issues, people don't get it right, and they're not too happy with that 18:17:08 #info vishnoianil says that it is easy to have typos, which makes this error prone 18:18:18 #info bjohnson asks who benefits by switching to one list 18:18:41 #info CaseyODL says that it would help users who don't know which lists to ask 18:19:08 #info there is still a feeling that complexity is not going to be reduced by this move 18:19:43 #info the Groups.io interface allows easy searching through all groups 18:20:35 #info CaseyODL suggests to use tags, but have groups based on category (kernel, support, protocol, etc.) 18:21:59 #info vorburger and vishnoianil say they don't want to receive email for all app projects for example, and have to setup filtering 18:22:26 #info filtering can be set up in the group config too, not just in the email client (like mailman topics) 18:23:45 #info one option to make it possible to use the old email aliases is to set up forwarding rules for the old lists 18:24:10 Back in a minute 18:24:45 #action CaseyODL to check if the above is possible (forwarding an email alias to a hashtag in a new group) 18:30:25 #info it seems like the same people usualy subscribe to the project specific lists of a cluster of projects, which are not the same as the kernel, apps, and other categories 18:32:42 #action CaseyODL will look into options for mailing list consolidation 18:33:06 An opinion I've always had is to have 1 general dev mailing list where all the projects go in by default and then projects that grow and become too chatty can create their own separate list. 18:33:41 For example projects that have like 1 email a quarter don't really benefit from having a separate mailing list. 18:35:02 #topic Release streamlining 18:35:02 #action CaseyODL to send out email to the community to continue the discussion about the email list consolidation 18:36:40 #info the current release process has several issues slowing things down 18:36:52 #info people ignoring CSIT requirements 18:37:29 #info release engineering (RE) is unable to unblock the release due to unresponsive projects 18:38:02 #info the all-in-one distribution is forcing arbitrary linking of unrelated projects 18:38:25 #info unresposinsive projects are more-or-less freeloaders for maintenance 18:39:00 #info one solution is focus on core projects, which have to be there for ODL to actually work 18:39:24 #info and then on active/responsive projects, which are consumed a lot downstream 18:39:38 #info make sure these projects are stable 18:39:47 anipbu, joining tws? 18:40:14 #info make sure core projects have a healthy committer team and it's easy to onboard committers 18:41:20 #info RE has a bit more control now to make things go faster by merging e.g. version bumping related patches and so on 18:41:45 #info we need to define requirements for projects to be "admitted" into this list of "core" projects 18:42:20 #info e.g., dependencies of core projects need to be in the core 18:49:28 #info the proposal is to have three buckets: 1. core projects which need to work all the time; 2. projects meeting the requirements for distribution, like passing jenkins jobs; which are part of the Karaf distro ZIP file; and 3. unresposnsive projects not included in the ZIP file, but which can still be loaded manually from the Karaf console 19:06:56 #link https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1wAG_zQ0IkFdh9kZgjKtMbTP-x7jJOvnOgFO5iehebpE/edit#slide=id.g2bfeb64f3c_0_7 <-- new distro model slide deck 19:08:05 #info the plan is to have this hashed out in Oxygen timeframe so it can be applied to the Fluorine release 19:09:26 #endmeeting