16:04:14 <dfarrell07> #startmeeting simplifyingodl
16:04:14 <odl_meetbot> Meeting started Thu Dec 13 16:04:14 2018 UTC.  The chair is dfarrell07. Information about MeetBot at http://ci.openstack.org/meetbot.html.
16:04:14 <odl_meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:04:14 <odl_meetbot> The meeting name has been set to 'simplifyingodl'
16:04:47 <dfarrell07> ping abhijitk anipbu faseelak jamoluhrsen premsankar rovarga_ vpickard vthapar
16:04:56 <dfarrell07> reminder about this meeting :)
16:05:09 <dfarrell07> #link https://zoom.us/j/664690256
16:05:10 <jamoluhrsen> dfarrell07: yeah, trying... my zoom is broken
16:06:09 <vpickard> dfarrell07: hey, i guess i missed the invite?
16:06:40 <dfarrell07> vpickard: public list one, nbd but thought you might find it interesting
16:06:49 <vpickard> dfarrell07: ah, ok
16:09:10 <dfarrell07> #chair rovarga_ abhijitk anipbu faseelak jamoluhrsen premsankar vpickard vthapar skitt tbachman vorburger
16:09:10 <odl_meetbot> Current chairs: abhijitk anipbu dfarrell07 faseelak jamoluhrsen premsankar rovarga_ skitt tbachman vorburger vpickard vthapar
16:09:33 <dfarrell07> #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-MaazB2rGQt_Ci9tMH8G6GNYfcFsJ9bMmCSsLHRwsqU
16:09:37 * tbachman has been chaired
16:10:45 <dfarrell07> lol, sorry tbachman, collateral damage of aggressive "join please" charing ;)
16:10:52 <tbachman> heh
16:11:01 * tbachman has been chaired before… doesn’t hurt too bad
16:11:14 <dfarrell07> this is a cushy chair
16:11:18 <tbachman> lol
16:11:56 <dfarrell07> #info going through existing doc, linked above
16:12:16 <dfarrell07> #info jiraj has done his homework, has some extra slides/ideas to talk through
16:12:54 <tbachman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr5nFfWIqhQ
16:14:04 <dfarrell07> tbachman: I missed your jokes ;)
16:14:09 <tbachman> heh
16:14:20 * tbachman <3’s the ODL community
16:14:34 <dfarrell07> #info jiraj talks through example of how Java EE reasoned themselves through similar challenges
16:15:57 <dfarrell07> #info one step to start would be to identify key services, start thinking of as microservices
16:16:14 <dfarrell07> #info there are about 33 services jiraj id'd as being critical to their Lightly usage
16:17:15 <dfarrell07> #info nice slide showing services in netvirt and how they might be grouped into microservices
16:18:35 <dfarrell07> #info would be not so hard with stateless services, but some extra considerations for stateful services
16:20:50 <dfarrell07> #info analysis of netvirt shows that it's not reasonable to break down to one bundle per microservice
16:21:43 <dfarrell07> #info tomp talks about cross-ties between services that also require some grouping
16:23:27 <dfarrell07> #info also need lots of consideration about what the logical chunk of work a microserv would handle - what are responsibilities, what does provide
16:24:07 <dfarrell07> #info also need to consider what wires will consist of between microservs
16:24:35 <dfarrell07> #info options for wires are things like rest, grpc, rabbitmq, kafka, etc
16:25:25 <dfarrell07> #info ODL <3's tbachman ;*
16:25:55 * tbachman was tempted to action “tbachman <3’s ODL back”
16:26:00 <tbachman> since he’s a chair, and all
16:27:02 <dfarrell07> lol
16:27:21 <dfarrell07> #info discussion about when things are broken apart, will need to consider if will use existing APIs or build new ones
16:29:58 <dfarrell07> #info perhaps obviously, need to make sure chunks of microservs are logical chunks that make sense to folks
16:31:33 <abhijitk> we would love to have you back tbachman
16:31:36 <abhijitk> :)
16:31:42 <tbachman> :)
16:32:01 <tbachman> #openstackproblems
16:32:02 <tbachman> ;)
16:32:13 <tbachman> but you never know
16:32:13 <dfarrell07> #info discussion about memory spaces, how
16:32:16 <dfarrell07> #undo
16:32:16 <odl_meetbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0x2ae6f10>
16:32:23 <dfarrell07> #info discussion about memory spaces, how data store would work if not shared
16:32:34 <abhijitk> OK 👍
16:32:40 * tbachman waves bbye 4 now
16:33:03 <dfarrell07> #info juraj says would likely need to include mdsal in all microservs to start with
16:34:01 <dfarrell07> #info tomp says the data store APIs would need some sort of implementation locally, even if fake, but need something to make the APIs work
16:36:12 <dfarrell07> #info LuisGomez reminds us that jsonrcp project might be useful for this distributed data question
16:37:34 <dfarrell07> #info vorburger points out that it would of course be nice just not to have shared state, LuisGomez agrees
16:40:38 <abhijitk> Very interesting discussion - but I need to drop off for some time
16:41:02 <dfarrell07> #info could have one microserv that has config data store that many microservs could access, and not bother with operational data in each microserv, there but not HAish
16:41:29 <dfarrell07> #info tomp points out that some of these microservs will be HA
16:42:23 <dfarrell07> #info some microservs could just be recreated if die, but others might need active HAish
16:44:16 <dfarrell07> #info using an etcd back mdsal would of course also be an option, in particular in k8s, see vorburgers work here
16:44:57 <dfarrell07> #info vorburger's current poc is looking like should be able to make hidden to services on top
16:47:08 <dfarrell07> #info lumina has learned some hard lessons about using ha data store vs external data store; also that it's painful to support both; also that it would be great if we could all work on some same solution upstream
16:50:23 <dfarrell07> #info lots of discussion about not needing to replicate/protect nearly as much data as we do today, operational data generated by microservs for internal use for example
16:52:14 <dfarrell07> #info but also need to consider how a microserv would get operational data if a pervious version of it died - how would it get back to having the same opp data; hot stand-by is one option; replaying data is one we do in some contexts today
16:53:48 <dfarrell07> #info tomp likes eventual consistency with cold standbys, if can make application work that way
16:56:15 <dfarrell07> #info other apps may have different HA needs
16:56:38 <dfarrell07> #info need to choose one application to use as first, poc; would very likely choose netvirt because lots of activity, interest
16:56:57 <dfarrell07> #info but eventually solution needs to apply to all of ODL, all companies/usages if at all possible
17:00:01 <XiongQuan> #info Quan
17:00:09 <dfarrell07> #endmeeting