13:01:09 <ChrisPriceAB> #startmeeting Arno retrospective
13:01:09 <collabot> Meeting started Thu Jun 11 13:01:09 2015 UTC.  The chair is ChrisPriceAB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:01:09 <collabot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:01:09 <collabot> The meeting name has been set to 'arno_retrospective'
13:01:22 <ChrisPriceAB> #chair rpaik
13:01:22 <collabot> Current chairs: ChrisPriceAB rpaik
13:01:31 <ChrisPriceAB> #chair HKirksey
13:01:31 <collabot> Current chairs: ChrisPriceAB HKirksey rpaik
13:02:39 <ChrisPriceAB> #topic sound off
13:02:44 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Chris Price
13:03:21 <HKirksey> #info Heather Kirksey
13:03:28 <uli-k> #info Uli Kleber
13:04:11 <ChrisPriceAB> #link https://etherpad.opnfv.org/p/Arno_retrospective the etherpad currently capturing items
13:04:12 <Malla> #info Malla (Docomo)
13:04:21 <jose_lausuch> #info Jose Lausuch
13:04:40 <trevor_intel> #info Trevor Cooper
13:05:26 <ChrisPriceAB> #topic introductions
13:05:45 <ChrisPriceAB> #info ground rules, be productive, don't blame, bring ideas for improvements
13:06:22 <ChrisPriceAB> #topic
13:06:27 <ChrisPriceAB> #undo
13:06:27 <collabot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x1dfd990>
13:06:31 <ChrisPriceAB> #topic what went welll
13:06:55 <Wenjing> #info #Wenjing CHu
13:07:00 <ChrisPriceAB> #info heather describes a lot of good feedback from the industry based on being able to ship Arno within 8 months
13:07:04 <hujie> #info hujie
13:07:28 <mdgray> #info Mark Gray
13:07:31 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Heather asks form the teams involved, what went well?
13:08:10 <rpaik> #info good cross collaboration amongst 4 project teams over the past few months
13:08:22 <uli-k> 5
13:08:22 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Chris highlights the cross team collaboration as a highlight
13:08:45 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Jonas adds there was cross project contribution as well, not staying within our "project borders" when contributing
13:09:17 * uli-k wonders which of the 5 teams didn't collaborate....
13:09:21 <ChrisPriceAB> #info heather asks how we can nuture and promote the good areas
13:09:55 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Jose says we should retain the good attitude that we developed to help each other out
13:10:36 <mhaugh> can someone post the meeting link for the Arno retrospective?
13:10:55 <uli-k> #link https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/939959397
13:11:15 <mhaugh> thanks
13:11:15 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Fatih states that we should continue to contribute to other projects to help drive the project forward.  If there are dependencies across projects a contribution to overcome them is the best way to keep moving forward.
13:11:37 <ChrisPriceAB> #chair Debra
13:11:37 <collabot> Current chairs: ChrisPriceAB Debra HKirksey rpaik
13:12:13 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Jonas adds that when we set stuctures in the future they continue to helpbuild community rather than building walls/competition
13:13:23 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Jose outlines that the functest leader did an excellent job during the project with clear goals and direction.  morgan_orange - just to be clear :D
13:15:28 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Ray adds that he has seen a lot of good feedback from the industry, and that our start has been very positive when compared to other communities.
13:15:36 <rpaik> #info ChrisPriceAB added that functest team did a great job of dealing with transitions
13:16:04 <ChrisPriceAB> #info dneary outlines the impact we have had at the recent openstack summit and how we are engaging with upstream communities has been a positive.
13:17:02 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Ildikov says the support we have seen on IRC to help bring people onboard has been excellent, well received, and is a value we have in our community to be maintained.
13:17:26 <ChrisPriceAB> #info dsmith outlines an "onboarding package" to help get people started in the community
13:17:32 <ChrisPriceAB> #undo
13:17:32 <collabot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0x1c9d490>
13:17:40 <ChrisPriceAB> #info dsmith outlines an "onboarding package" to help get people started in the community would be beneficial
13:19:18 <rpaik> #info sharing across muitplie projects (integration, requirements, etc.) is another positive
13:19:18 <ChrisPriceAB> #info The Arno release is well publicised on the social media and internet search engines.
13:20:28 <ChrisPriceAB> #topic etherpad topics around improvements
13:20:33 <ChrisPriceAB> #link https://etherpad.opnfv.org/p/Arno_retrospective etherpad
13:21:00 <ChrisPriceAB> #info the burden on a small number of SME' during Arno was highlighted as an issue for our community
13:21:25 <ChrisPriceAB> #info some e-mail threads have additionally raised concerns around this area.
13:21:54 <ChrisPriceAB> #info consideration: it may not have been clear what skill-sets would be required in OPNFV to engage from our members.
13:22:43 <ChrisPriceAB> #info actions: being clear on the areas where we need to increase will help our members and the broader community find the right people to have involved
13:23:57 <rpaik> #info dsmith notes that resource needs are dependent on goals/targets that community sets
13:24:17 <ChrisPriceAB> #info dsmith agrees there is a need for ODL SME's to help in the community
13:24:30 <ChrisPriceAB> #info IP, VLAN & network topology competence is also required
13:25:33 <ChrisPriceAB> #info dneary adds that we need people who are in telco operations who are actively deploying applications today and can provide feedback
13:25:55 <ChrisPriceAB> #info dsmith adds operational and practical skills are required with the above competences.
13:26:36 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Jose adds additional testing competence is required, with broad experience in testing for application deployment scenarios would be valuable.
13:27:21 <ChrisPriceAB> #info dsmith adds collaboration with SDO members will continue to be valuable and is something we should promote moving forward.
13:28:48 <icbts> Perhaps some OSGI/Karaf people to help with platform issues you see on ODL/ONOS (ie when features/repos/commands/monitoring is required on controllers?)
13:28:51 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Debra adds that training and onboarding resources would be helpful
13:29:09 <ChrisPriceAB> #info icbts adds that perhaps some OSGI/Karaf people to help with platform issues you see on ODL/ONOS (ie when features/repos/commands/monitoring is required on controllers?)
13:29:25 <ChrisPriceAB> #topic How do we support Arno?
13:30:44 <rpaik> #info two onboarding areas: new developers plus new users
13:31:12 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Currently a mailing list exists that shall be used to address support issues, no plan is yet in place to establish a concrete structure
13:31:26 <ChrisPriceAB> #info heather asks for additional input as available.
13:32:37 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Investigation is ongoing into establishing a spectrometer/stackalytics like solution for project visibility.
13:33:19 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Ildikov added that project information to engage in projects and understand them is required to help onboarding new people.
13:34:05 <ChrisPriceAB> #info dsmith agrees, more available and clear scope and documents would help as our community fluxes through the year for consistency.
13:34:26 <icbts> #info have a look at https://trello.com - used on ODL integration team
13:34:27 <ChrisPriceAB> #topic any last issues on community
13:34:51 <ChrisPriceAB> We have Jira as opposed to Trello (ODL is investigating moving to Jira now btw)
13:35:34 <ChrisPriceAB> #info improvements in the requirement projects and handling would be valuable
13:35:57 <ChrisPriceAB> #topic Project management and handling
13:37:03 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Debra asks what went well in project and scope mgmt
13:37:30 <ChrisPriceAB> #info dneary outlines that scope definition was something that went rather well.  Within 2 months we had a relatively clear idea of our Arno scope.
13:38:21 <ChrisPriceAB> #info the scope reduction was  contributing factor in being able to deliver
13:40:04 <rpaik> #info ChrisPriceAB adds that communication on reduced scope could have gone better
13:41:11 <ChrisPriceAB> #info dsmith adds that we did not have an effective change management process for decision making during Arno
13:42:03 <ChrisPriceAB> #info and adds that better communication will help reduce friction
13:42:50 <ChrisPriceAB> #info dneary adds that in some cases people came away from discussions with different understandings of the outcome of those discussions
13:43:16 <ChrisPriceAB> #info ChrisPriceAB thinks this can also be attributed to our backgrounds and not having yet established a common language/understanding
13:44:59 <rpaik> #info Debra asks if there is a need for change management process
13:46:31 <rpaik> #info dneary/ChrisPriceAB then asks what change we are trying to govern.  preference is not to be too rigid
13:47:51 <rpaik> #info Debra suggests that decision makers on change management could be the project leads
13:49:13 <ChrisPriceAB> dneary outlines that the leaders in the opensource community arise rather than are named, and as the defacto decsion makers should be leading through their team and decisions should be made by the community rather than by governance.
13:49:21 * ChrisPriceAB i hope that's what he said
13:49:26 <dneary> Kinda
13:49:30 <ChrisPriceAB> :)
13:49:42 <ChrisPriceAB> adjust as necesary and info it
13:49:51 <dneary> I was raising a flag around top-down vs bottom-up leadership
13:50:05 <dneary> We already see some tension around that, and it's going to be a real scaling issue
13:51:23 <dneary> #info dneary flags the need to be wary of imposing too much top-down control/benediction of project leaders vs allowing leaders to arise organically as we grow as a community.
13:51:53 <icbts> #info Jira is used by most Apache projects, allowing the community to co-ordinate
13:52:24 <rpaik> #info ChrisPriceAB adds that a structured approach to using Jira may be helpful
13:54:35 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Debra and Jose outline some additional effort is needed to addres risk mitigation when making our plans
13:55:06 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Jonas adds that as we did not have a clear idea of the resources available it was very difficult to manage the risk of the scope
13:55:50 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Jose outlines that we need to be aware of the active contributors when making plans, the numbers on the wiki may not reflect the activity in the project
13:58:00 <rpaik> #info Jonas adds that better prioritization also would have been helpful
13:59:50 <ChrisPriceAB> #info dneary adds that successful time based projects manage a release time-ruch by gating early on feature readiness and gating early.
14:00:02 <ChrisPriceAB> and gating early
14:03:36 <ChrisPriceAB> #info ChrisPriceAB adds that establishing clear milestones and being concise on the meaning of those milestones and qualitifcations will be important
14:04:35 <ChrisPriceAB> #info dsmith adds that projects will ahve their own timeline that may or may not coincide with a time based release activity.  We need to be clear on the correlation between releasing and content
14:07:16 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Ildikov states she thinks it is acceptable to set our release date based on upstream dependencies rather than trying to stay to a completely time based release cycle.
14:08:04 <julien_ZTE> #info Julien
14:11:31 <zhifeng> #info zhifeng
14:15:44 <ChrisPriceAB> #topic project resources
14:16:28 <ChrisPriceAB> #info Debra asks what went well in Arno and where we can get improvement moving forward
14:16:51 <zhipeng> #info zhipeng
14:17:09 <ChrisPriceAB> #info dsmith states due to the various timezones effective communications are needed and how each team can relate to each other
14:17:25 <rpaik> #info more analysis/process needs to be done to make decisions on our release process moving forward (wrapping up the project schedule topic…)
14:20:09 <rpaik> #info fdegir adds that Octopus resource was an issue and had to borrow poeple from other projects
14:22:16 <rajeev> #info Rajeev Koodli
14:22:25 <dneary> HKirksey, which eastern time zone? ;-)
14:24:09 <rpaik> they’re both in Montreal….
14:25:07 <dneary> rpaik, I was poking fun at the US bias/assumption
14:25:32 <dneary> JST is also an Eastern timezone :-)
14:26:08 * ChrisPriceAB thinks the east coats of Sweden is beautiful at this time of year
14:26:17 <ChrisPriceAB> coast
14:26:32 <rpaik> #info dsmith to send email on what additional support may be necessary for the LF labs
14:28:07 <rpaik> #info Iben ask if there is a way to automate a lot of activities
14:28:30 <rpaik> #undo
14:28:30 <collabot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0x1f49c10>
14:28:47 <rpaik> #info Iben ask if there is a way to automate a lot of activities on the LF hardware
14:28:56 <dneary> Can I minute what I said earlier, even if it's not timely?
14:29:11 <rpaik> go for it
14:29:19 <dneary> Thanks rpaik
14:29:20 <rpaik> I did it myself :-)
14:29:48 <dneary> #info There was a discussion about release cadence, and how features will make it from upstream into a release
14:30:24 <dneary> #info dneary made the point that there is not a shared understanding of what a "release" means, what release artifacts the project will create, or even what it means to be in a release
14:30:30 <ChrisPriceAB> #info ray wraps up, this will be updated on the wiki
14:31:10 <dneary> #info There are many installer projects, multiple SDN related projects, not all with the same functionality, and in that context, there is not a shared understanding of what an OPNFV release *is*
14:31:16 <ChrisPriceAB> #endmeeting