17:01:22 <ildikov> #startmeeting Project lifecycle review part 2
17:01:22 <collabot> Meeting started Tue Sep  8 17:01:22 2015 UTC.  The chair is ildikov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:01:22 <collabot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:01:22 <collabot> The meeting name has been set to 'project_lifecycle_review_part_2'
17:02:19 <ildikov> Hi, anyone around for the review meeting?
17:03:25 <RayNugent_> #info Ray Nugent
17:03:46 <ildikov> #info Ildiko Vancsa
17:03:52 <ildikov> hi Ray
17:04:15 <ildikov> I have some issues around GTM, in contact with Chris to fix it
17:05:29 <lmcdasm> #info Daniel Smith
17:05:35 <bryan_att> is there a GTM?
17:05:37 <RayNugent_> ok, i was going to ask :-)
17:05:54 <bryan_att> #info Bryan Sullivan
17:05:55 <RayNugent_> Brian, it seems to be broken at the moment
17:06:07 <ildikov> I cannot start, my laptop does not support and I asked Chris as we are reusing the TSC channel
17:06:10 <bin_> #info Bin Hu
17:06:19 <ildikov> but Chris has some issues with starting the meeting it seems
17:06:37 <bin_> I can start the GotoMeeting
17:07:04 <ildikov> bin_: that would be great
17:07:29 <bin_> I got an erro - I am not the organizer, sorry
17:07:50 <bin_> I seems a different GotoMeeting from what we projects usually use
17:08:05 <ildikov> hmm
17:08:27 <ildikov> bin_: we can use another channel if you have
17:08:48 <bin_> or you can use mine https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/599078381 / +1-773-945-1031x599078381#
17:09:55 <ildikov> bin_: ok, let's use that one
17:10:05 <bin_> I started it, feel free to join
17:10:20 <lmcdasm> got a message "GTM is expericing tech difficulites trying to connect into yours bin"
17:11:17 <bin_> try again. Ildiko and Bryan have joined
17:12:02 <lmcdasm> in
17:12:05 <lmcdasm> thx
17:14:43 <ildikov> #chair bin_
17:14:43 <collabot> Current chairs: bin_ ildikov
17:15:41 <bin_> #info This the followup meeting of Project Lifecycle Review
17:16:06 <bin_> #info Ildiko: there were some discussions on the mailing list
17:16:30 <bin_> #info Ildiko: categories were removed from the proposal
17:17:11 <ildikov> #info #link https://wiki.opnfv.org/project_lifecycle_bylaws
17:17:35 <ildikov> #info #link https://wiki.opnfv.org/project_lifecycle
17:17:45 <bin_> #info Ray: have we decided it will be an official OPNFV project, or not?
17:18:18 <RayNugent_> We have projects in OPNFV right?
17:18:23 <RayNugent_> Is this one?
17:19:04 <RayNugent_> Seems like we would have a better chance of changing bylaws if we were an official project
17:20:16 <bin_> #info Ray: Seems like we would have a better chance of changing bylaws if we were an official project
17:20:50 <bin_> #info Ildiko: we need TSC approval, and Board approval if we want to change bylaws
17:22:11 <bin_> #info Ray: we have a better chance to get Board approval if we have a project
17:22:44 <bin_> #info Ildiko: Not sure if we can have "governance" project
17:22:59 <bin_> #info Ildiko: lots of admin overheads
17:23:48 <bin_> #info Ray: contributors may participate on a regular basis if we have a project
17:24:33 <bin_> #info Ildiko: not 100% sure that it needs regular project work
17:24:41 <ChrisPriceAB> ok, so am on my PC now and can start goto... :s
17:25:09 <ildikov> ChrisPriceAB: we're using Bin's now
17:25:16 <ChrisPriceAB> ah ok cool.
17:25:25 <bin_> #info Iben: no time to participate as a formal project
17:25:34 <ildikov> ChrisPriceAB: https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/599078381
17:25:42 <ildikov> ChrisPriceAB: if you wish to join
17:26:00 <ChrisPriceAB> On the above, the TSC governs the byaws and charter.  The board approves.  In this instance the TSC has asked Ildiko to lead an investigation to propose and amendment regarding project classification.
17:26:20 <bin_> #info Bryan: perhaps a standing committee may work?
17:26:22 <ChrisPriceAB> I would but I have another meeting starting in 4 minutes
17:26:57 <ildikov> ChrisPriceAB: do you think this activity we are doing could be done as project work?
17:27:37 <ChrisPriceAB> nope, not really.  Not sure why you would.
17:27:39 <ildikov> ChrisPriceAB: I mean from TSC/governance perspective would this make sense?
17:27:47 <ildikov> ChrisPriceAB: ok
17:27:48 <ChrisPriceAB> you are talking about the activity to amend the bylaws?
17:28:11 <ChrisPriceAB> it's not really a project is it, the sooner it is finished the better for everyone.
17:28:17 <ildikov> ChrisPriceAB: see RayNugent's question above
17:28:39 <ildikov> ChrisPriceAB: yeap, agreed
17:29:10 <ChrisPriceAB> not sure I understand it tbh.
17:29:26 <ChrisPriceAB> I have to attend another meeting, will try to lurk but will not be focused here sorry
17:29:52 <bin_> #info Ildiko: this activity not often all the time
17:30:30 <bin_> #info Ildiko: handle it on demand
17:30:55 <bin_> #info Ray: not suggest to continuously change the process
17:31:50 <bin_> #info Ray: not weekly meeting, but convene as needed when issues arise
17:32:42 <bin_> #info Ildiko: we can start this topic further on mailing list
17:33:28 <bin_> #info Ildiko: we may not need this permanent group, but let's discuss it further on mailing list
17:34:25 <bin_> #info Ildiko: let us focus on discussing the proposal
17:34:59 <bin_> #info Ildiko: any comment on the proposal in wiki page?
17:35:50 <bin_> #info Ray: concern on defining lifecycle without knowing the review process
17:37:08 <bin_> #info Ildiko: only a few changes (summarized in email)
17:37:22 <ChrisPriceAB> The review process:  propose to the TSC, the TSC will review and accept or reject and ask for amendments.  There ends the process for this group.
17:37:49 <ChrisPriceAB> Review by the board is done on behest of the TSC and will be up to the "whoever is TSC chair" to propose to the board.
17:39:01 <bin_> #info Ildiko: lifecycle is more or less the same as summarized in wiki page
17:39:46 <ildikov> #info original project lifecycle page: #link https://www.opnfv.org/developers/technical-project-governance/project-lifecycle
17:39:47 <bin_> #info Ildiko: just removed those project "categories", and consolidate metrics
17:42:28 <bin_> #info Ray: this is gated process, we don't have infra setup for reviews except creation review.
17:44:36 <bin_> #info Ildiko: it is not about daily work of each project. OPNFV is young. Graduation review may happen after a few releases.
17:47:12 <bin_> #info Ray: if I am already in a release, what is the value of having those reviews?
17:47:50 <bin_> #info Ildiko: really no good answer, but it is defined by bylaws and expected by Board
17:50:15 <bin_> #info Ildiko: we have plenty of time to address it, but we may not be able to address it at the beginning
17:54:00 <bin_> #info Ildiko: any argument of proposal - i.e. removing the categories, and slight consolidation of metrics listed on wiki pages?
17:54:57 <bin_> #info Ildiko: understand the silence means agreement on the proposal on wiki page
17:54:57 <RayNugent_> #info My concerns stand
17:56:14 <bin_> #info Ildiko: will bring it to TSC for review
17:57:06 <bin_> #info Ray: review before or after Board approval of bylaws?
17:58:07 <bin_> #info Ildiko: Board approves first, then work on other issues. TSC agreement first, Board approval next.
17:59:19 <RayNugent_> #info I'm concerned the board will identify the unresolved issues and ask us to fix before they approve. Small steps may not be an acceptable strategy
17:59:27 <bin_> #info Bryan: small step is fine, and we need to move forward
18:00:54 <bin_> #info Ildiko: agreement here and get TSC agreement first, then Board approval.
18:02:07 <bin_> #info Ildiko: will send follow-up mail to the mailing list.
18:02:16 <bin_> #info meeting adjourned
18:02:40 <bin_> #endmeeting